Operation Pike and Raspberry - the destruction of the Caucasus oil fields

[enigma]

I have for a long time heard of this, a plan devised by either or both the French and British militaries, to bomb the city, or more precisely the oil production and storage facilities etc in the city of Baku, Azerbaijan (then part of the Soviet Union).

From the little I have read on the subject, it was brought up during the Battle for France. The idea being that a 3 month bombing operation made by the strategic bombers of Bomber Command (and possibly bombers from the French air force) would cripple the oil flow from the city and could possibly cripple the Wehrmacht and at the time the Soviet Union (as they were viewed as being on the same side of the Germans at the time)

However the plan never went ahead as iirc the Battle of Britain began and we had to look to defending our shores for the time being.

The question is now, does anyone have any more information on this subject?
But also the bigger question would be, could have the RAF pulled it off? Bombers were being sent to the Middle East for the operation but could as the Air Vice Marshal I believe said ‘cause the biggest blaze ever!”

Somewhat importantly, would have this halted the Wehrmacht and Russian forces, would the loss of Baku been so important to them?
(not only would have it pulled the Soviet Union into the war against the allies … would it have been winnable?)


After June 41 and the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and there rapid gains, the idea of bombing Baku was once again brought up.
The plan being to not only bomb Baku but the other oil fields in the Caucasus, destoy bridges, power stations and ports, drop either or both Commando’s and paratroopers to raid and destroy targets from northern Iraq to the Caucasus in conjunction with SOE operatives blowing targets up.
It would seem this all came under the codename of Operation Raspberry with the objective of not letting the Germans capture the oil fields … intact.

Again, does anyone have any more information on this operation?

Also would have the bombing of and destruction of the Soviet oil industry in the Caucasus affected the Germans in any large way? I know that it was there objective for 1942 but before then and after then they continued on pretty much fine until the massive bomber raids made by the USAAF and the RAF against the synthetic oil plants near enough brought them to a halt.

[Kaider]

I can't offer any more information but I can say the oil supplies in the Caucasus were very vital to the Germans for continuing a war effort. Without those supplies to draw from, the German invasion of Russia would have been halted much sooner, while the Russian's would have other means to procure fuel.

The success of the RAF bombings though would obviously depend on the stage of the war. I can't really think of a good time to bomb would be, possibly when the German charge was going full speed. If they mananged to do enough damage, the Germans would definately feel it.

[OliverMarshall]

You might find this intresting aswell, Canceled Military Operations. Most of them durig WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canceled_military_operations


I think Downfall is the most interesting, the invasion of Japan.


A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.

Outside the government, well-informed civilians were also making guesses. Kyle Palmer, war correspondent for the Los Angeles Times, said half a million to a million Americans would die by the end of the war. Herbert Hoover, in memorandums submitted to Truman and Stimson, also estimated 500,000–1,000,000 fatalities, and were believed to be conservative estimates; but it is not known if Hoover discussed these specific figures in his meetings with Truman. The chief of the Army Operations division thought them "entirely too high" under "our present plan of campaign."

For context, the Battle of Normandy had cost 63,000 casualties in the first 48 days. The Battle of Okinawa caused 72,000 casualties, of whom 18,900 were killed or missing over about 82 days . Several thousand soldiers who died indirectly whether because of wounds or other causes at a later date are not included. The entire war cost the United States a total of just over a million casualties, with 400,000 fatalities.

Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan. As of 2005, all the American military casualties of the following sixty years—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exhausted that stockpile.

[Graham The Green]

Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan. As of 2005, all the American military casualties of the following sixty years—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exhausted that stockpile.

That is incredible.

[enigma]

nice bit of info on the Purple Hearts.

[[BEF]-R!G4M0RT!Z]

I don't get it... 500,000 purple hearts, which are awarded to troops injured by the enemy, and over a million casualties, with about 400,000 fatalities, so, how are there still purple hearts remaining, well in 2004?

EDIT: Nice info on all of the planned operations Enigma, not just in this thread but the others aswell :)

[OliverMarshall]

the US has suffered 1,000,000 casulties following WWII?:confused:

[The Wookiee]

I think losses is the proper word (Meaning killed, wounded and MIA). Also, AFAIK, you can be awarded several Purple Hearts.

[DaveP]

Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan. As of 2005, all the American military casualties of the following sixty years—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exhausted that stockpile. [1] This is somewhat misleading, however, as it suggests that Purple Hearts being issued currently are those minted in the closing days of World War II. In fact, the design of the medal and its corresponding service ribbon have been updated since the end of the Korean war, so the surplus ones represent an obsolete design that is no longer awarded.


You guys need to get the full quote.