The Most Over-Rated / Under-Rated WWII Weapons

[BillSpargo]

I'd like your opinions on which WWII weapons and vehicles best achieved or failed in their designed purpose, whether their value and effectiveness outweighed their cost in resources and men, and whether they were properly utilised or not.

This thread can be as detailed or as simple as you want. List the weapon(s) and/or vehicle(s) and if you wish give reasons why you chose them. Perhaps after enough replies we could finalise a list to create a poll.

[enigma]

think the Sten could be a good choice (under-rated), issued in drives, paradropped in to resistance cells all over europe. Yet its slagged off to high heaven coz it (not sure if all models) did have a tendacy to unload a clip at you and your mates by accident lol.

[BillSpargo]

Cheap and nasty I suppose. Have you seen the Australian version the Austen Mk.I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austen_MK_I)
They weren't too fond of it.

I think the StuG III ausf.G was often overlooked for its more famous cousins. It was cheap to produce, had fairly good frontal armour and a low profile, a good gun and when utilised by an experienced crew was very effective. It also had torsion bar suspension give better off-road performance whereas the Panzer IV did not, and had an able engine for its size.

I know the Tiger II will get a pounding in this thread for being too heavy and over-sized and too expensive but I still love the lumox of a tank.:D

[Sgt So and So]

The most underrated was the Johnson rifle of the USMC. Used only once en mass in combat, in the Pacific on Georgia and Tarawa islands, and several Sargeants were said to have carried them because of their relatively light weight. Quite effective, very interesting rifle, but overshadowed by the BAR. http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/johnson_auto.jpg

[Lordwatson]

I think the Bren gun is often overshadowed by the more famous BAR, but I really think that it was a fantastic weapon. Perhaps a little accurate for an LMG, it still had a good rate of fire, and I would have rather carried one than the BAR

[OliverMarshall]

Hetzer, has not gotten much publicity but arguably the best german anti-tank tank of the war. 75mm gun, tiny profile and cheap and easy to produce. Should have produced it in larger numbers.

[bowman]

The Japanese A6M Zero was overated, once the Americans got up to speed with their technology the plane's sucess rate dropped drastically after the first few months of the war.

[Volvulus]

The most underrated was the Johnson rifle of the USMC. Used only once en mass in combat, in the Pacific on Georgia and Tarawa islands, and several Sargeants were said to have carried them because of their relatively light weight. Quite effective, very interesting rifle, but overshadowed by the BAR. http://www.tarawaontheweb.org/johnson_auto.jpg

Thats one ugly looking gun.

[krAzu]

I know the Tiger II will get a pounding in this thread for being too heavy and over-sized and too expensive but I still love the lumox of a tank.:D
That beast surely is not overrated, I once read a story of a German tank commander killing 140 russian tanks (If I remember right that was the number, now dont bash me if it was only 30... It sounds unbelievable but I think thats right) somewhere east of Berlin until he was out of ammo with a KT.

[lazlazlaz1]

pfft i could beat him any day....

[Sgt So and So]

Thats one ugly looking gun.
I thought it was kinda cool. Sweet iron sights, but they get you seen in a hurry if they're not camoed. My friends great uncle learned that the hard way.

[Wolfsburg]

I don't think the M1941 is really that bad looking, but the one in the above pic is indeed a bit ugly. I'm guessing it is one outfitted for the LMG role or somesuch.

Here's some info on the
Johnson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_M1941_Rifle

Note it's toned down (and less ugly) appearance.;) It was the main competitor against the M1 Garand for the role of standard U.S. service rifle.

I always thought the Hawker Hurricane was an underrated bird. It seems like the Spitfire always got the spotlight...

[BillSpargo]

Heinz Guderian actually preferred the PzJgIV over the PzV Panther with its lower profile and similar firepower.

My arguement against the Tiger II is that it was too expensive in man-hours and Reichmarks to the detriment of other projects, although it used many components which were standardised over several panzer types. That was one of the problems with German armament development at that time, too many types of vehicles and ammunition to support, where the standardisation of these would have saved a great deal of time and money.

The Zero was an excellent fighter for its time, however it was quickly superceded by superior enemy models. The Japanese failure was not anticipating and learning from their successes and failures.

The Hurricane, with its wooden aeroframe and painted canvas skin was much easier and quicker to repair than the metal of the Spitfire. The turn around time of the Hurricane was much quicker therefore and could be in the air very quickly after taking a fair amount of damage. Its armament of eight .303 mgs was adequate at the time as the German aircraft had little armour protection.

Hmm, the Johnson rifle seems very similar to the Garand, but with a ten-round magazine and a slightly poorer reliability. Oh to have two extra rounds to pop off.
The light mg is great. It's lighter, smaller and has similar or better performance. Perhaps one of these will inadvertantly make it into the game. The Devil's Brigade used them. :)

[enigma]

The Hurricane won the Battle Of Britain, its under rated as others have said because the Spitfire was more widly known.
the general tactics iirc was for the Spitfires to go for teh bf109s and 110s while the Hurricanes went after the bombers.

they scored think its well over 50% of the BOB kills.



Tis a good point about the KT, same can even be said for the Tiger. The high velocity 75mil gun the Panther was using was just as effective as the 88. Believe some tank hunters such as that mkIV you mentioed below also recived them, iirc that mkIV had more more front armour then a Tiger.

[OliverMarshall]

Also the Hurricane was much more stable than the Spitfire and so was a better firing platform, it also had more kills.

Overrated-Tiger I

This tank has been far overrated. The only time it was any good was in Normandy and that was basically only Michael Wittman who caused 'Tiger Terror' after destroying 7th Armoured Division vanguard. It performed poorly in Tunisia and in Russia and got nowhere in the Battle of the Bulge.



Underated-Pather I

thought of at the same level as mass produced allied tanks because of its 75mm gun when in fact it was far superior and its gun was superior in penetration to the 88. Excellant all round tank which should have replaced all german tanks.

[|Crimson|]

Im not sure on this but this was what I always thought. Weren't there many more Hurricanes than Spitfires.

So saying that they scored over 50% of kills isn't particularly impressive?

I may be wrong. Correct me if I am :)

[enigma]

Im not sure on this but this was what I always thought. Weren't there many more Hurricanes than Spitfires.

So saying that they scored over 50% of kills isn't particularly impressive?

I may be wrong. Correct me if I am :)
iirc during the Battle of Britian there was, however the puplic viewpoint is that the much more elgant and impressive - the coolness of the Spitfire wont he battle.

So when its in the underdog role, everyones like ooo a spitfire etc
it was also slower then the bf109 as well iirc
It was obsloete, during the BOB they where mostly the mkI version, it was a mix of wood, canvas and metal.
It was actully pretty fast at low levels, but at higher levels it speed is slower and its opponents on paper at least are faster.
claimed 1,593 kills out of 2,739 total claimed for the BOB - source - wiki

So, being an older design, somewhat slower at higher altuitues where the majoirty of the fighting i would assume would be taking place, overlooked in face of the Spitfire etc etc
I think its alright to say that they took more then 50% of the kills, it is underrated compared to the other RAF aircraft.

For example after the BOB it went on a great carrer of blowing shit up in the other theaters, defended the western desert force (and later the 8th army), defended malta.
Was used in the fighter bomber role until phased out in favour of the Hawker Typhoon.

So yea, it was underrated ;)

[|Crimson|]

Yeah, it was under-rated. I agree with that. I mean, when I was much younger I knew what a spitfire was but I had never heard of a hurricane.

So, we agree there.

Were Hurricanes the most common British Fighter?

[enigma]

according to a RAF website on the BOB, the RAF by the beginning of July had built up its strength to 640 fighters,

From the same site, Aircraft and the number of squadons operating them
(some squadrons where operating mulitple aircraft and it doesnt have figures for the planes alone)
Hurricane 36
Spitfire 18
Beaufigher 1
blenheim 9
Defiant 3
gladiator 2
Whirlwind (seems this is this) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_%28fixed_wing%29)1
Fulmar 1
buffalo (american F2) 1
marlet (american F4 Wildcat) 1

but yea it seems that the hurricanes where more numerous.
link with most of the planes above on for you all to see (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/airpower.html)

[Hyperion2010]

Most under rated weapon: The Human being.

Sorry folks, but nothing on the battlefield is worth as much as a good brain directing traffic and getting stuff done.

[DarkCanuck]

Most under rated weapon: The Human being.

Sorry folks, but nothing on the battlefield is worth as much as a good brain directing traffic and getting stuff done.


I wouldnt consider people being under rated. People like: Winston Churchill, Erwin Rommel, George Patton, Erich Hartmann, Gunther Rall, Isokoru Yamamoto, Bud Anderson, Charles E. Yeager are all recognized as important people.

The list could really go on and on. You could name millions of soldiers.

[2ltben]

think the Sten could be a good choice (under-rated), issued in drives, paradropped in to resistance cells all over europe. Yet its slagged off to high heaven coz it (not sure if all models) did have a tendacy to unload a clip at you and your mates by accident lol.
That's not a bug, its a feature. Just toss a loaded Sten in a room and there's no risk of having to clear it yourself:D There's also the matter of having to keep 28 round magazines because fully loaded mags would often jam the thing.

I think the real BAR is very underrated. I've yet to see an accurate portrayal of one in a game. The thing weighed a ton, and GIs would often hook it up to the front straps of their gear. They wouldn't need to carry it, the torque balanced out, and they could ditch their packs and ready their weapons in one motion. Also, the weapon was balanced so that, while there was recoil, the kickback didn't throw off your aim. Soldiers using a BAR for the first time often severely overcompensated for recoil because they were used to the recoil of other weapons.

[Sgt So and So]

That's not a bug, its a feature. Just toss a loaded Sten in a room and there's no risk of having to clear it yourself:D There's also the matter of having to keep 28 round magazines because fully loaded mags would often jam the thing.

I think the real BAR is very underrated. I've yet to see an accurate portrayal of one in a game. The thing weighed a ton, and GIs would often hook it up to the front straps of their gear. They wouldn't need to carry it, the torque balanced out, and they could ditch their packs and ready their weapons in one motion. Also, the weapon was balanced so that, while there was recoil, the kickback didn't throw off your aim. Soldiers using a BAR for the first time often severely overcompensated for recoil because they were used to the recoil of other weapons.
LOL! Can't wait to do that in-game/sarcasm

[Vash]

The Japanese A6M Zero was overated, once the Americans got up to speed with their technology the plane's sucess rate dropped drastically after the first few months of the war.


one reason for this was because the Americans captured a zero and were able to test its strengths and weaknesses and build their new aircraft around them. once the enemy captures one of your most powerful weapons, your kinda screwed......:eek:

[sid]

On the whole spitfire hurricane thing ,didn't the hurricanes go after the German bombers while the spitfires went after the fighter escorts?

[enigma]

aye, from what ive read that was the tactic which they tried to employ.

[[BEF]-R!G4M0RT!Z]

On the whole spitfire hurricane thing ,didn't the hurricanes go after the German bombers while the spitfires went after the fighter escorts?

Yup, and the Hurricane got more aerial kills during the BoB then the Spitfire, but then again there were quite a few more Hurricane's then there were Spitfire's.

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

About the spitfire: It's not overrated. There are so many pilots who have flown the spitfire and they all admit its one of the best fighters ever. Its agile, fast and its got some good firepower. The only thing bad about it is that it cant come far cause its fuel tanks arent big enough. And if those pilots say it i believe it. Cause i dont think anyone here has ever flown it and flown other ww2 planes to compare with? ;)

[enigma]

Eurofighter']About the spitfire: It's not overrated. There are so many pilots who have flown the spitfire and they all admit its one of the best fighters ever. Its agile, fast and its got some good firepower. The only thing bad about it is that it cant come far cause its fuel tanks arent big enough. And if those pilots say it i believe it. Cause i dont think anyone here has ever flown it and flown other ww2 planes to compare with? ;)

Dont think we said that, we were saying how the Hurricane is Underrated in contrast to the more popular planes such as the Spitfire.

[[BEF]-R!G4M0RT!Z]

Yea, Enigma got it, I wasn't, or anyone else for that matter, saying that it was not very good, or that it was over rated, its just that it overshadows many other planes, even if they deserve more credit than people give them.

[Wolfsburg]

I agree. The Spit, especially with the later models in mind, is not over-rated, IMO.

[enigma]

I agree. The Spit, especially with the later models in mind, is not over-rated, IMO.
but no one said it was :p

[-=KnIfE=-]

How about this one?

FG42.

Under or Over-rated?

I've heard that because of it's light weight and powerful cartridge (7.92x53 mauser?) it had huge recoil, was difficult to control, and the short barrel made for huge muzzle flash.....

But its actual design lent itself partly to the M60 design, and the general idea behind it, a multi-use (rifle/sniper/LMG), lightweight assault rifle using a round which had "stopping" power made it under-rated IMO.

Maybe if they'd used the Kurz rounds (7.92x37mm (I think)) used in the StG44 it would have been more succesfull?

-=KnIfE=-

[DarkCanuck]

above post. similar to the stg44....

great gun, however the ak47 (one of the most famous 'arguably' guns in history) was based on it. th ak is, i believe, the most produced gun in hostory.

dont mean to steal your thunder, above post.

[BillSpargo]

above post. similar to the stg44....

great gun, however the ak47 (one of the most famous 'arguably' guns in history) was based on it. th ak is, i believe, the most produced gun in hostory.

dont mean to steal your thunder, above post.

Properly called the MP44 it was renamed on Hitler's request to StG44 for propaganda purposes (MachinenPistole44—SturmGewehr44). Although similar in appearance the mechanism in the AK47 is different to the MP44.