The War on Drugs

[JonasDahlin]

watch the vids and spill your beans

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HCNKMQR1yg

part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfu26ZaJwGk

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAIkZUCwcFw

[MyFingerHurts]

This is the typical propaganda proponents of legalizing drugs will toss out there.

Find a few 'highly qualified' experts who support the legalization then bolster thier views and findings against a few individuals whom are complete asshats on the subject (but never the less call themselves doctors and philosophers). And you have yourself an entertaining 30 minutes of television.

That is the problem when viewing material that is inherently biased, and hell, this show has a history for being presented as entertainment, and although they qualify thier presentation as 'the truth,' you should rather view it as their truth, and take some time to study the materials that are presented by both sides of this argument.

And this presentation is more concerned about the legalization of marijuana than it presents any rational case for the legalization of other narcotics.

[-X-Sublime]

I smoke weed and I drink wine, And I work good and I work fine but first take care of head. :)

[JonasDahlin]

MyFingerHurts

Yes it's an entertainment show but the thing is that they really have numbers and facts to back them up. If you really think this is just their "bullshit" propaganda, please feel free to prove them wrong.

This is really a question of freedom.

[MyFingerHurts]

In that entire show, did they cite the sources where they recieved thier information? Last time I checked, Penn and Teller were Magician/Comedians, NOT scholars. Yes, at times they may be presenting accurate statistical facts, but, once again, they will only present the information that is beneficial to thier side of the argument and will ignore any other statistical fact that would weaken thier case.

[JonasDahlin]

They don't say that drugs are good for you they are only saying that the american drug policy is hypocritical bullsh*t and that's the truth. And recent medical studys shows that alcohol and tobacco are far worse than cannabis and ecstasy, and yet they are legal. As a matter of fact they do cite their source, they say that they got the information from the goverment, what more sources do you need when your own goverment is showing that the war on drugs arn't working? And like the sheriff said the only reason he doesn't do drugs are because it's against the law. The only thing you have come up with is that they are "inherently biased" is that your defence? maybe you should start giving counter facts instead of talking bull?

[OliverMarshall]

Well i'll tell you about a system that works very well here in switzerland, basically there is a center in town and you go there someone injects you with the drugs in a room and then you leave or whatever. It works very well since if you take all the fun and the socialness out of drugs then what's the point of taking them?

[MyFingerHurts]

Alright, I wasnt going to get too involved in this topic, rather than simply state that you have to be wary of television programming when there is an attempt made to present you 'facts'. But if you want some defense, well ya got it:


Psychoactive substances bear an enourmous cost to society. Short and long-term costs to society include: healthcare provision; prevention campaigns; harm reduction programs; addiction treatment; public nuisance and third party damage; absence from work and lost productivity; crime committed by drug users while 'under the influence'; and, often primarily, costs associated with identifying/ arresting/ prosecuting/ incarcerating/ reintegrating into society people involved in the drug trade.
If you say that alcohol and tobacco are worse than other illegal substances, then why dont we just make alcohol and tobacco illegal, rather than legalize other drugs? Should we legalize these other HIGHLY addicitve substances, they will be commercially exploited just as tobacco and alcohol are. Thus, not solving any problem.
Sure the War on Drugs has it's downfalls, as does damn near any other U.S. Policy. I'm not saying that we should simply do away with the policy, but rather adapt it to suit the times.
You also toss out there that the U.S. Government states that the war on drugs 'isnt working.' The U.S. Government will also be the first to say that we are losing the war on medical diseases. Should we simply cut all funding to major medical research because we simply arent 'winning' that war?We are dealing with a war that cant simply be defined in terms of winning or losing. And the scope of this policy goes WELL beyond what Penn and Teller can present in a 30 minute television program. I'm currently finishing my Graduate work for my Criminal Justice degree. I'm well versed in this topic and well versed in the manipulative nature of television (a whole other debate in an of itself). This could be the reason why I dont watch TV ;)

In order to combat crime, we must attack the problem from the source. The drug trade is a MAJOR source of crime in the United States. I'm totally for placing restrictions on alcohol and tobacco. I've never been against it. They all constitute as drugs, and contribute to the deviant behavior within the US.

Trust me, I dont believe 95% of the bullshit that is fed to me on a daily basis. This is why I've developed a mind capapble of thinking critically, and would NEVER invest in watching a television program for more than it's entertainment value.

[enigma]

They don't say that drugs are good for you they are only saying that the american drug policy is hypocritical bullsh*t and that's the truth. And recent medical studys shows that alcohol and tobacco are far worse than cannabis and ecstasy, and yet they are legal. As a matter of fact they do cite their source, they say that they got the information from the goverment, what more sources do you need when your own goverment is showing that the war on drugs arn't working? And like the sheriff said the only reason he doesn't do drugs are because it's against the law. The only thing you have come up with is that they are "inherently biased" is that your defence? maybe you should start giving counter facts instead of talking bull?

In responce to this comment...

The medical studies can kiss my backside :p

In my lifetime ive met many achoholics, potheads, smack users etc

From my own experiance ive met enough people who smoke weed, most of them its every now and again and there fine unless they have just smoked the stuff.
The rest of em, the ones who smoke it constent/quite alot are fucked up ... simple as.

Out of all the acoholics ive met, 1 had nearly died due to liver failure and 1 was a very nasty bugger after a few zips.

Of all the people ive met who smoke, none are fucked up, none have been diagnoised with Lung or throat cancer etc
I know there lungs are chocked full of crap ....

buts its my experiance which tells me the first is the more dangerous...

[JonasDahlin]

"If you say that alcohol and tobacco are worse than other illegal substances, then why dont we just make alcohol and tobacco illegal, rather than legalize other drugs? Should we legalize these other HIGHLY addicitve substances, they will be commercially exploited just as tobacco and alcohol are. Thus, not solving any problem."

Well that's what they are say, we should either legalize drugs or have none at all. Does it make any sens to have 2 drugs that are more dangerous than cannabis and ecstasy? And Doesn't i feel a bit pointless to fill you're prisons with junkies istead of filling the with real criminals like child molesters and killers? I mean you are paying taxes to keep some kid in jail just because he smoked some weed doesn't seem right.

I know that penn and teller are getting paid for showing their opinin in a rather shocking way but the truth is I rather se them giving their so called biased facts than seeing a commercial saying "drugs are bad" because no one belivies that anyway.

Shrapnel

Smoking weed and such are mostly for fun but the real addicts take drugs because their lives are completly shit. Maybe that why your system works because the don't need to steal or kill someone to get their "fix"

[enigma]

And Doesn't i feel a bit pointless to fill you're prisons with junkies istead of filling the with real criminals like child molesters and killers?

Iirc the latest statistical information for the UK is that 4 out 5 children in the playground have recieved some form of abuse, weather that be sexual, psychological/mental, or physical.

Imo they should all be locked up but then there will be some smartass politican giving the same argument .... prisons are overcrowed, wasting money, we cant keep them all in there ... blah blah lets let them out.
Then obviously there will also be some wise-asses who will then state about how that impeding peoples freedom ... braking the countrys tratitions of being free.

... different subject ... same results... just like everything else which poltics gets its grubby little fingres into. For example (and not to go off topic but just as an example, Iraq ... the Tories and Lib Dems would have done the same if they were in charge but they use it as a political tool agaisnt the party in power).




This is really a question of freedom.

Sorry i missed that before. Thats a load of crap. Freedom does not exist. The whole frabic of our socity is built upon laws which impede our freedom as a human.
Our relgious backgrounds give us moral guidence, telling us not to do things. Our parents when we grow up tell us rights and the wrongs of life.
The day we are born our freedoms are taken away from us.

What we have left is a socity which is to just a corny term ... the lesser of the two evils. That being Democratic States agaisnt those who are none democractic. What we find is that we are more "free" then them.

[JonasDahlin]

The thing is, as long as you arn't addicted to it you are fine but when you do get addicted it will start to degenrate you're body and mind.

And from my experince I think alcohol if far worse than cannabis. When people smoke weed they get calm an giggleish however people who drinks allot of alcohol tend to get mood swings, either they are having a blast or they get angry and violent, and sometimes they even get suicidal.
And I kown far more alcoholichs then i know cannabis addicts, when I think of it I don't know anyone that is addicted to cannabis, they just smokes it for fun.

Btw tobacco doesn't only give you Lung or throat cancer, it effects everything in you body, like your heart. It shrinks your blood vessles wich can give you a heart attack. Did you know that a cigerett contains 50 diffrent cancer enhancing substances and yes there's also that substances called hydrocyanic, that's the stuff you use to kille people with in the gas chambers, and cigeretts are the most addictive drug in the whole world thanks to it's nikotin

Well if you going to lock up the junkies why not just lock up everone that is using alcohol and tobacco. then we wouldn't have any scoundrels on the streets would we?

There's nothing like total freedom, that would be anarchy. however there are degrees of freedom and some countries have more than others. This is such a freedom, to decied if we want to take drugs or not. Everone know it's morally wrong to kill someone, but how is it morally wrong to smoke weed if you don't harm anyone?

[NicholasJohnson]

however people who drinks allot of alcohol tend to get mood swings, either they are having a blast or they get angry and violent, and sometimes they even get suicidal.

I think it can be the same, I know a guy who claims to have smoked weed every day for 3 years, he is exactly like you just described. He also has delusions of grandeur and is sort of perverted.

But everyone is different.

[JonasDahlin]

Well if you drink lagre quantities alcohol every day for 3 years you wouldn't be so healthy either :p

Some people shouldn't use any drugs at all because they can't simply handle the effects.

[Infinite XÆr0]

from what ive read on the subject smoking weed when you're young ( ie. through highschool) can fuck up your brain in the same way that drinking can during adolescence. but of course, after your brain stops developing smoking some weed isnt any worse than drinking some alcohol. of course i still consider alcohol more dangerous than weed since you can get physically addicted to alcohol, while people can only become psychologically addiced to weed. also, alcohol withdrawal syptoms can be fatal...

[MyFingerHurts]

Everone know it's morally wrong to kill someone

Watch this trap you just walked into. There is nothing that is considered to be universal moral law. Do not assume that something is wrong or right just because a majority thinks that is the case.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

I've read a book about illegal drugs 1 or 2 years ago and there's written down that there never was a person who died of a cannabis overdose (Not counting selfkills (which every drug has)). Thats a question, not a statement...is that true? I can't really believe this...



Find a few 'highly qualified' experts who support the legalization then bolster thier views and findings against a few individuals whom are complete asshats on the subject (but never the less call themselves doctors and philosophers). And you have yourself an entertaining 30 minutes of television.

Switch the sides and its the same...If you legalize "soft drugs" i could think of a decline of drug abuse (Cannabis got many people in his fangs) because of government controlled *centers*.

Just my 2 cents...dont expect me to write another post in this thread

[MyFingerHurts]

Schrem: Was there something in that quote from my post that you were intending to point out? That particular section was pointing to the fact that you cannot use this television programming as a source for information. The program chose the 'best' in the field supporting the legalization of drugs, and contrasted thier views to the views of Mr. Weiner (an obvious asshat), who proposed claims voiced by a small majority of those who are proponents of the legalization of drugs.

And as far as the overdose of cannabis dilemma, your sources would be correct in stating that there hasnt been a documented case where 'too much weed' has been the primary factor in a death.

[Schrem [506th PIR]]

Hm not more then : find experts who dont support the legalization and get them in one room with some (stupid/asshat) guys who support it. Sorry for my writing..im a bit tired.

[enigma]

There's nothing like total freedom, that would be anarchy. however there are degrees of freedom and some countries have more than others. This is such a freedom, to decied if we want to take drugs or not.

:D

Well the government made the decission that shagging our sisters and marrying our cousins is a bad idea ... ok raise of hands .... who is upset that the governments made this discission for us, who thinks they should have the right to decide weather its a good idea or not?

:p



Watch this trap you just walked into. There is nothing that is considered to be universal moral law. Do not assume that something is wrong or right just because a majority thinks that is the case.

:D

[JonasDahlin]

:D


Well the government made the decission that shagging our sisters and marrying our cousins is a bad idea ... ok raise of hands .... who is upset that the governments made this discission for us, who thinks they should have the right to decide weather its a good idea or not?


Oh please. Your goverment also banned alcohol in 1920 to 1933, everyone knows how well that worked.

Btw there are so many bullshit laws in the US that it's almost unbelievable.
Here some examples.

Alabama
"It is illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church"

Arziona
"It is illegal for men and women over the age of 18 to have less than one missing tooth visible when smiling."

Arkansas
"A man can legally beat his wife, but not more than once a month."
Hahaha this really cracked me up

California
"You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows"

Iowa
"One-armed piano players must perform for free"
Wtf?

Montana
"In Montana, it is illegal for married women to go fishing alone on Sundays, and illegal for unmarried women to fish alone at all."

Nevada
"It's still "legal" to hang someone for shooting your dog on your property."

New York
"The penalty for jumping off a building is death"
HAHAHAHAHAHA! omg this can't be true, can it?


http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/

Do I even need to defend my opinon against a country who have/had laws like these? :D

Edit
"Well the government made the decission that shagging our sisters and marrying our cousins is a bad idea"
Not according to Utah :D
"When a person reaches the age of 50, he/she can then marry their cousin."

[sooch90]

:D

Oh please. Your goverment also banned alcohol in 1920 to 1933, everyone knows how well that worked.

Btw there are so many bullshit laws in the US that it's almost unbelievable.
Here some examples.

Alabama
"It is illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church"

Arziona
"It is illegal for men and women over the age of 18 to have less than one missing tooth visible when smiling."

Arkansas
"A man can legally beat his wife, but not more than once a month."
Hahaha this really cracked me up

California
"You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows"

Iowa
"One-armed piano players must perform for free"
Wtf?

Montana
"In Montana, it is illegal for married women to go fishing alone on Sundays, and illegal for unmarried women to fish alone at all."

Nevada
"It's still "legal" to hang someone for shooting your dog on your property."

New York
"The penalty for jumping off a building is death"
HAHAHAHAHAHA! omg this can't be true, can it?


http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/

Do I even need to defend my opinon against a country who have/had laws like these? :D

Edit
"Well the government made the decission that shagging our sisters and marrying our cousins is a bad idea"
Not according to Utah :D
"When a person reaches the age of 50, he/she can then marry their cousin."


Sweet, you pointed out a bunch of dumb laws in America. So does that determine the overall success a country has? Does that make America stupid?

I'm sorry, but I don't really understand the point of pointing these laws out. I could do the same to a bunch of other countries as well, but what's the point?


Drugs are destructive substances period. You never know who's life is going to be ruined because they get addicted to certain drugs, why even take the chance? Alcohol and tobacco messes people's lives up too, but we can't outlaw them (prohibition), that didn't work. But that doesn't mean we should legalize every potentially desctructive substance just to not be "hypocrtical". Then we would have alcoholics, people addicted to smoking cigarettes, AND we'll have all the other drug addicts out there who became addicts because there was no law against it.


"And Doesn't i feel a bit pointless to fill you're prisons with junkies istead of filling the with real criminals like child molesters and killers?"

And here, I think you're missing the point of putting drugies in jail. It's to discourage drug use. If there's no consequence to abusing drugs, then I'm sure there would be alot more kids that take drugs. And alot more lives wasted away high. Alot more lives, which could have been fullfilling by the achievement of goals, shattered.

[MyFingerHurts]

And just because the U.S. has these 'stupid' laws, it does not mean that ANY of them have been enforced over the past 50 years. Hell, we still consider fornication (sex) with anyone, consent or not, that is not legally bound to you by marrige, a crime.

The only crime, when successful, that we CANT prosecute is suicide.

Sure we have some bullshit laws, but last time I checked, this thread was concerned about the U.S. stance on the international drug trade not the fact that you cant go whale hunting in Nebraska.

And for the record, Sweden isnt much better:

-A prince or princess who marries without the consent of the government, that person forfeits the right of succession for his/her children and all other descendants.
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/international/sweden/images/spacer.gif
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/international/sweden/images/spacer.gif
-While prostitution is legal, it is illegal to use the services of a prostitute.


-You may only own half a meter down in the ground of any land you own.


-It is illegal to repaint a house without a painting license and the government's permission.


-If you release pigs into a acornwood (or a beechnutwood) mutually owned by you and at least one more, and exceeded your quota of allowed pigs, you will have to pay a fine for each each pig to the other owners and to restore any damages caused by the extra pigs.

[Sgt So and So]

-If you release pigs into a acornwood (or a beechnutwood) mutually owned by you and at least one more, and exceeded your quota of allowed pigs, you will have to pay a fine for each each pig to the other owners and to restore any damages caused by the extra pigs.

HAHAHA.

First farmer: WTF PIGS IN MY WOODS! SUE!
Second farmer: Ummm... what?

[Wide Awake]

Sadly the war on drugs is being lost. I see it at college every f*cking day, They all come here from every side of the political spectrum and most of them have the same stupid f*cking idea hey you know what its f*cking college you gotta try everything once. F*ck them I have no sympathy for any moron who drinks himself dead, drives off the road, shoots himself, falls off anything and dies the way i see it is good riddance. I have even less sympathy for any moron who decides its a good idea to start using any drug and I don't care what anyone of your moronic pothead friends say weed is a gateway drug. Now that my personal opinion of the people who drink and do drugs is out of the way. This does not mean I wouldn't support legalizing weed letting the government have full control and letting them tax it. My reasoning is 1 get it away from the guys who would shoot you if you looked at them wrong 2 to bring in lots of cash cause of all the morons who would be buying it 3 you can control what goes into it. Although i'm not 100% fully in backing of that I would like to see people just say that they really don't need drugs, beer, cigarettes and hell I think caffeine can be bad for you but i don't see the world waking up one mourning and saying you know what we don't need any mind altering substances.

[enigma]

:D

Oh please. Your goverment also banned alcohol in 1920 to 1933, everyone knows how well that worked.

....

Edit
"Well the government made the decission that shagging our sisters and marrying our cousins is a bad idea"
Not according to Utah :D
"When a person reaches the age of 50, he/she can then marry their cousin."



If were going to slag off my government ... can we at least get the right country :p
I live on the other side of the pond :D

[JonasDahlin]

Well infact we are better, sweden has 5 dumb laws USA on the other hand has over 500.

sooch90
"Sweet, you pointed out a bunch of dumb laws in America. So does that determine the overall success a country has? Does that make America stupid?"

Even if you are a success you can still be an asshat. Can anyone who thinks beating his wife once a month is okej please rais your hands... oh no one, I wonder why :D
Just because the goverment makes a law doesn't mean it's right.
The law against cannabis arn't going to work in the long run, just like alcohol.

"And here, I think you're missing the point of putting drugies in jail. It's to discourage drug use. If there's no consequence to abusing drugs, then I'm sure there would be alot more kids that take drugs. And alot more lives wasted away high. Alot more lives, which could have been fullfilling by the achievement of goals, shattered"

Okej so instead of letting people "waste away their lives high" we waste them away in prison instead. F*cking brilliant! I mean they have such a bright future after 20 years in jail :rolleyes:
The thing is many kids try drugs for fun other because of shitty lives. The majority who does it for fun grows up like normal people, the ones with shitty lives, well they are doomed without any help. So if we put everone in jail instead we waste the ones that will become normal to. Do you get my point or do I have to draw you a picture?

Btw it saddens me that none of you have any sympathy at all for drug addicts. If your life was shit, wouldn't you want to escape that life even if it only was for a short period? People who are addicted on drugs doesn't need jail time they need help from the society or loved ones.

Sorry enigma, I've got carried away but you seem to sympathies with the US laws

[enigma]

I dont "sympathise with US Laws" .... i just think its a good idea to not let people go around shagging there sisters or getting smacked out there heads...

:p

[MyFingerHurts]

Well infact we are better, sweden has 5 dumb laws USA on the other hand has over 500.

I think if we were to debate who's country is 'better' this would not play such a crucial role. Sweden has an approximate population of 9 million.
While the U.S. has a population of over 300 million. We have 50 states that are allowed to make thier own sets of laws, as long as they abide by the governing Constitution that blankets our whole Justice System. I emplore you to find me 5 'dumb laws' in the U.S. Constitution.



Even if you are a success you can still be an asshat. Can anyone who thinks beating his wife once a month is okej please rais your hands... oh no one, I wonder why :D
Just because the goverment makes a law doesn't mean it's right.
The law against cannabis arn't going to work in the long run, just like alcohol.

If we are going to start labeling asshats, then perhaps we should start labeling those who dont research thier facts first the real asshats. Beating your wife in the U.S. IS illegal. At one time, it probably wasnt. Times change, and you certainly cannot judge the current success/failure of a country based on events the current population has absolutely no control over.

Prohobition lasted ~13 years, then it was dropped. The laws against cannabis have been in effect for a hell of alot longer than that, and have been more effective than they had 30 years ago. Look at Sweden for instance, Sweden has one of the toughest drug control policies in the world! Not to mention the state-owned monopoly of alcohol. And you are bashing the U.S. for our dealings with the war on drugs?



Okej so instead of letting people "waste away their lives high" we waste them away in prison instead. F*cking brilliant! I mean they have such a bright future after 20 years in jail :rolleyes:
The thing is many kids try drugs for fun other because of shitty lives. The majority who does it for fun grows up like normal people, the ones with shitty lives, well they are doomed without any help. So if we put everone in jail instead we waste the ones that will become normal to. Do you get my point or do I have to draw you a picture?

Actually, please draw me a picture. I'm not sure that you were speaking English in that entire last rant. . .



Btw it saddens me that none of you have any sympathy at all for drug addicts. If your life was shit, wouldn't you want to escape that life even if it only was for a short period? People who are addicted on drugs doesn't need jail time they need help from the society or loved ones.

Sweden has taken a more rehabilitive route to dealing with drug addicts. I agree that there needs to be some element of rehabilitation integrated into the process for dealing with drug offenders, but there still should be some element of punishment and retribution for breaking the law. Once again, Sweden has a population of ~9 million. The U.S. 300+ million! Over 33 times the population of Sweden. That's a hell of alot of people, and rehabilitation programs are NOT cheap. The U.S. simply doesnt have enough $$$ to deal with rehabilitating every drug addict. Maybe we should ship you some of our 2+ million individuals in the prison system, and let you deal with them. . .

/end rant

[Saden]

Ladies, ladies, calm the fuck down, we're here talking about the war on drugs, not about which country is better. I think that there was some truth to that video, but some of it was just stupid and didn't have much logic to it imo.

[Appleskates]

:Do I even need to defend my opinon against a country who have/had laws like these? :D




My friend, you just killed your own fucking argument. See, you have no credibility after just calling my country a bunch of idiots for some dumb laws. I suggest you stop attacking the country, and attacking the law in itself... you're signaling that you're losing the argument by driving yourself to that level.

I suggest you stop calling my legal system dumb. I live here, as do many forum members. I'm not getting into this argument, but if you attack my country again, I will throw my support 100% behind it.

[MyFingerHurts]

He can attack the U.S. all he wants. I would rather he keep his justifications on the U.S. War on Drugs policy, but if he feels he can attack the U.S. based on illegitimate arguments, then let him fall flat on his face. :D

This is the forum where we "beat the shit" outta each other's politcal views afterall ;)

[enigma]

within reason though ;)


I think that there was some truth to that video

True, but the video for me fell flat on its face when they stated basically screw the law let everyone deicde weather they wanna do X, as isnt this a country built upon freedom yadda yadda blah blah

If you do that for one thing ... is it not then undemocratic to not do it for everything else ... loose the speed restrictions on roads etc

Although i think i stressed the point on freedom a bit too much in my other post. I was in a bad mood when i typed it :p

With time to rethink the situation. What the dudes on the vid failed to mention was .... just because the law is there doesnt mean you cant do it .... you still have the choice of weather you want to try X for yourself, brake law Y etc
And thats true freedom, making discissions for yourself... at least imo

thus once again the argument they presented with that question then once again falls flat on its face. :D

[MyFingerHurts]

With time to rethink the situation. What the dudes on the vid failed to mention was .... just because the law is there doesnt mean you cant do it .... you still have the choice of weather you want to try X for yourself, brake law Y etc
And thats true freedom, making discissions for yourself... at least imo


*Applause

That is DEAD ON enigma. Laws dont KEEP you from comitting a crime, the opportunity to commit the crime is still there. Laws act in such a way to deter you from committing those crimes. You are still free choose which route you would like.

[JonasDahlin]

Hey I didn't make those laws so it's not my fault that your country made some stupid choices, I was just poiting them out and that some laws arn't necessary doing any good.

I know that it's illegal to beat your wife in the US but that fact is that such a law did exist and if we start ignoring history, we might as well start ignoring fact. I never said that my country is better when it comes to drug policies, but we don't put people away for life because he/she smoked a joint.

Appleskates.
well feel free to point out where I say that your country are a bunch of idiots.
"Do I even need to defend my opinon against a country who have/had laws like these? :D"
And c'mon are your going to blame me for some sarcasam?

Btw here's a nice quote from George Bush "I wouldn't answer the marijuana questions. You know why? Because I don't want some little kid doing what I tried." Does this mean that your own president is a pothead?

[MyFingerHurts]

At this point, I'm going to withdraw from this debate, based on the fact that Zynthetikk is simply tossing out completely random, illogical, and irrelevant data, highly grounded on opinion and NOT empirical fact. The topic has shifted completely off course from the U.S. Policy of the War on Drugs.

There comes a point to where we can still respect your opinion, while at the same time, not agree with your logic. Many of us have repetedly pointed out the holes and irrelevancy in your logic, and instead of countering our points, you point your finger at the U.S. Judicial System and laws that date back MANY decades and believe that to be relevant to the present situation at hand.

When you decide to present some information that actually strengthens a logical and relevant position, I'll come play.

[JonasDahlin]

From my point of view your opinion is as illogical and irrelevant as you say mine is. What we have here is a lack of understanding.

So therefore from here and now on I will only use facts

"The cost to put a single drug dealer in jail is about $450,000, composed of the following:

The cost for arrest and conviction is about $150,000.

The cost for an additional prison bed is about $50,000 to $150,000, depending upon the jurisdiction.

It costs about $30,000 per year to house a prisoner. With an average sentence of 5 years, that adds up to another $150,000.

The same $450,000 can provide treatment or education for about 200 people. In addition, putting a person in prison produces about fifteen dollars in related welfare costs, for every dollar spent on incarceration. Every dollar spent on treatment and education saves about five dollars in related welfare costs."

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax9.htm

"How many people are actually killed by drugs?
The number of drug deaths in the US in a typical year is as follows:

Tobacco kills about 390,000.
Alcohol kills about 80,000.
Sidestream smoke from tobacco kills about 50,000.
Cocaine kills about 2,200.
Heroin kills about 2,000.
Aspirin kills about 2,000.
Marijuana kills 0. There has never been a recorded death due to marijuana at any time in US history.
All illegal drugs combined kill about 4,500 people per year, or about one percent of the number killed by alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco kills more people each year than all of the people killed by all of the illegal drugs in the last century"

Source: NIDA Research Monographs

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax3.htm

Would "legalization" cost more than it saves?

"No. The best analysis done to date by any Federal official shows that "legalization" of the now illegal drugs would result in a net $37 Billion annual savings. This estimate is considered conservative. That is, it is likely that the savings would be more."

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax16.htm

[Gien]

Legalize it!

Marijuana that is.

[Wide Awake]

Zynthetikk the report doesn't take into account the countless people killed in the making, producing, smuggling and selling of the illegal drugs it just takes into account the OD's. How many people do you think are killed in drug related violence each year, not to mention the stupid shit you do on drugs that could ruin your life or take your life.