The deal with Russia

[Wide Awake]

Ok well I have seen a bunch of articles well some about protests being shut down and people claiming Russia is turning into a police state. So pretty much I know nothing about it and I would like to hear about it from some of the people living in the country or just anyone in general who knows more about it.

[Appleskates]

Putin is ex-KGB. It's only natural he misses the oppression of his citizens. I hadn't read about the shutting down of protests-that makes me even more worried. However, hopefully in the next election he'll be ousted.

[Corporate Ignorance]

I'm the only one Russian present on these forums...

There two other russian-speaking guys here are 1944 developers- two Ukranians living in Germany, as far as I know. So it falls on me to tell you about Russia. Well, I can speak of it for ages, you know. It's a hurting theme for me, because thanks to my wonderful goverment my life and my mother's life, life of all of our relatives, life of almost all our friends resembles one big eteranal struggle for survival.

And I'm not making suffering hero out of myself, it's truly so.

Life in Russia nowadays is one HUGE injustice. The word that is strongly associates with current state of things in my country is this- total and overwhelming "corruption".
Everyone steals, and the whole state system is made to make stealing more convinient. All those talks about Russian democracy and social, economic progress is bullshit.( Even your politically correct wikipedia holds some truth in this article-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin. It's about the foundation of our modern regime)

Russia has a tragic history, a long defeat that lasts centuries. Soviet Union killed millions of its own people. And where the innocent blood has been shed flowers won't grow too soon. We are heirs of the Soviet Union- poverty in some regions is overwhelming We've got those capital cities(Moscow and St.Petersburgh) where all the elite criminals, politicians and other “honest democratically elected rulers” dwell in mansions built on stolen dirty money, and the rest of the fading, bleak country where in some places people don't have hot water and electricity for years and haven't seen nothing except total indifference and need.


Modern Russia is a Third World post-Soviet corrupted, poor, corporate state, where the most negative sides of "wild" capitalism mix with rotten remains of Soviet system and mentality.
During Yeltsin's reign the country was almost dissolving and economy almost crumlbled. That's why Putin made efforts to make situation more convinient for the goverment- so it dosen't mean that he made things profoundly better, it simply means that his regime is more stable and hard then corrupted anarchy of Yeltsin's times.


Indeed, Putin regime is nothing like any kind of democracy. Control of the state is sly, there are no open repressions, but people dissappear and conrtract killings of criticizing journalits happen, opposing T.V chanlells are all being closed and cheated people support Putin, longing for a "strong hand" that will make order-in similiar atmoshpere all dictatorships were being formed-Spain, Italy, Germany are good examples.

If you want to know how things work here, how it feels actually to be A RUSSIAN, here is a brief picture- it seems that there are two separate kingdoms in Russia- big, rich, content, almost European-like Moscow and St.Petersburgh, who resemble big parasites- and the rest of the country, from where they suck taxes and resources, both spiritual and material. So go beyond big cities into huge spaces to the East, North and South- fading, alcoholic, wasted provinces of which nobody seem to even remember. Cheating is the way of making money. Criminals are everywhere, often allied with local police and city structures.

It's so FUCKING awful. It really is. In some regions people literary die of starvation, not to say about other troubles, and on T.V some freakin’ Moscow pop star holds another “great show”, spending dirty millions on it. It just twists the interior of people. They got so confused. The rest of the country is simply overlooked and slowly rotting.

Salaries are terribe- While prices are very hight. for example, some people here get 35-40 $ per MONTH, while they have to pay for their apartemnts 20$, and some shitty jeans or shirt costs 15$...So imagine how we live here?

We struggle for survival.

All that I say here is not scary tales. It's my own bitter expirience.

[DavidUpton]

I think people are being to realise that Russia is not a democracy at all. At least, a lot of people in Britain realise it, especially after that incident where a Russian was poisoned in London.

Edit: Don't get assasinated Corporate... :(

[Corporate Ignorance]

I think, they don't need me...:) Yet.

I'm too small and have no influence- my protest-band sings in English, that's why I'm not a Bob Dylan, I'm not a journalist, i'm just an ordinary student...

But I won't change my views. And there are lots of people in Russia who are really nice, thinking, caring people. They can't prosecute everyone.

[DavidUpton]

Do you have any of your songs recorded? Is there anywhere/anyway I could listen to them?

[Corporate Ignorance]

Well...Actually, FartCop of the Dev team already listened us.:)

As the matter of fact, here you can listen to one sketchy, very hasty demo-

www.myspace.com/sludgeband

That's me singing and playing bass.

But we've been collecting money for studio recording(it's VERY expensive in Russia, as you can guess) and only recently managed to record three more songs in one of the local studios...Anyway, thanks for intrest. Even if you would not like it, you intrest is flattering. And I am not proud.:)

[DavidUpton]

Thats actually pretty good. just a shame its so expensive to record.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Corporate Ignorance]

Sincere thanks,bro.:)
But the talk about my band(wich is very flattering to my ego) is on the other hand grand off-topic in this post...:P So, let us stick to mother Russia

[Sgt So and So]

I personally despise what the world did to Russia after the Cold War. It basically got them set up as a capitalist country and said, "Hey, you're a big boy now. Do it yourself." It's like leaving a baby on floor of the emergency room. It just isn't fair to the people of Russia that the Western world ignored them.

[ShaunCowdell]

Nice music man, I loved it! I'm not a MySpace user [shudders] but keep us updated on it all maybe?
Actually I might even create an account so I can support you. :p

I wish you the best of luck with it all.


Back on Topic.
Sadly I take what I have in Australia for granted.
I am not rich, my family struggles more than enough to get food and clothes for us.
But that's not the point. We have heat, water, phone lines, TV, a working government... ect.
Need I say more?

*listens to music again*

[Corporate Ignorance]

Heh, thanks, Raven , when one tries to create something support means a lot, you know. Art demands to be spread :). Thank you very much indeed for encouraging.
Of course, if you are intrested, we've just finished to record our demo and it's not so hasty as the one that is presented on our page. I hope that I will be able to upload more songs soon.:) Thanks for the intrest.:)

Actually, my native town( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pskov is close to the Eastonian border(25 km) so our life is not that hard as for example in eastern parts of the country, although our countryside is terrible. The most awful site in Russia is our villages. They are just...slowly rotting in your eyes. Young people run to cities(especially Moscow and St.Peterburgh) where they can find job and money and old people fade in crumbling dirty houses. And noone gives a damn.


By the way, did you guys know that Russians are dying. I mean, that our death rate is SO much bigger then birth rate that if this trend continues in 2050 years there will be 50 millions of ethnic Russians left(now we have approx. 170) Yeah, I don't want to spoil your mood or anything with my gloomy tales but I speak what is really happening. We are the Third World.

[scottdog]

For some strange reason russia would my first choice to visit in the world.

I told my friends that and they said "you'll probily die", shows how much they care for the third world lol.

[xtc-alec]

CI, i hate to say it...but this seems to be the trend of our modern world.

The rich get richer the poor get poorer.

It is seriously Fu**ed up that our world has turned this way, i may sound like a hypocrit...cause i want to join the army. But please dont think any less of me for that..im not doing it for any sort of politcal reason or because i think "those ragheads gonna get dead!" Im doing it for me. You may call me ignorant...but i say f**k you :p

Anyway back on topic there, i seriously feel for you man your music is awesome. Keep at it a know you always have friends...if not around you...then here ;)

[Saden]

CI, i hate to say it...but this seems to be the trend of our modern world.

The rich get richer the poor get poorer.

It is seriously Fu**ed up that our world has turned this way, i may sound like a hibicrit...cause i want to join the army. But please dont think any less of me for that..im not doing it for any sort of politcal reason or because i think "those ragheads gonna get dead!" Im doing it for me. You may call me ignorant...but i say f**k you :p

Anyway back on topic there, i seriously feel for you man your music is awesome. Keep at it a know you always have friends...if not around you...then here ;)

Hypocrit not
Hibicrit

Anyways I've visted Russia several times and
Well it sort of sucked :( No offence Corporate
The hotel we stayed in had holes in the wall
And cockroaches. We were going over a bridge to get to the
next town on our motorcycles, and under the bridge there was no water :confused:

Well, I was poor then, we were going through Russia to Turkey, to buy
some clothes, then go back to Poland, and sell them. :P

[ShaunCowdell]

I have actually always wanted to visit Russia.
I have no idea why... It's just on the list like Vietnam and Germany.

[Corporate Ignorance]

2xtc-alec
Thanks for kind words regarding music. It's really vital...
And I have nothing against soldiers and armies. It's a very noble job. It just depends where the soldier shoots and at whom with what reason and under what justification.

And thanks for support in general...

2Saden
No need to sorry for saying truth. If you read what I've written above it will become clear that I'm not too happy with current state of affairs in Russia. But on the other hand, Russia has great culture and great people. And the land in intself is beatiful. One big plus we've got a very sophisticated system of education.

And by the way if you visit Moscow or St.Petersburgh today it's almost European- those cities are very clean and rich. But the rest of the country....Russia is the largest country in the world. And throught the land there are lots of sorrow. Belive me.


It's a very tragic land- the people are "at war" with their goverment since the beginning of the Soviet era. Russia hides many unpleasent secrets, both past and present. Its history is tragic. Very, very tragic.

But for those who like to visit Russia- it's relativley ok in European part of the country. Cities are better, countryside is utterly bleak.

[Saden]

And the stuff that Russia did in Chechnya didn't help the way other countries look at it either. But I have visted Moscow, it was very very nice, I might actually be planning another trip there.

[Wide Awake]

)

[Appleskates]

For some reason I don't think Russia will EVER be okay.

[Fallschirmjäger]

On russia i would only go there if i could to see the old battle sites of WW2 only realy.
And on putin runing the country he dose seem to be doing alright there,but when is the next election?,like it seems no one can beat him ever when there's an election.
Is there a certain amount of terms they serve or if he keeps wining he stays in power?.We know they and the west where enemies before and after the fall of the soviet rule things took time to get better with the west,but they seem to be going good,but lately they seem to have been going backwards maybe? or is this just the way it looks in the news.

[Corporate Ignorance]

2Fallschrimjager
Don't trust the news. Trust the people...:)

2Appleskates
You know, I've got the same feelings too.

Yeah, and we've got huge amount of WW2 museams, whole European part of Russia was occupied and that's great portion of the country.

2Saden
Chechnya is a very controversial theme, I think I will start a thread here someday, posting some videos and material regarding it. I think it will be interesting. Those two wars are national tragedy and a one big bloody crime from both sides.

[ShaunCowdell]

Do the war mueseums represent the German side of events as well as the Russian?
I could understand why they would discriminate against such subjects...

[Corporate Ignorance]

Heh...German side of events? Well, you see there were neary 30 million dead Soviets in the WW2. Millions of civillians were shot, beaten to death, raped, thrown to concentration camps, burnt alive in their wooden houses(not far from my town there is a spot where SS burnt entire village with children and women locked in their homes)
Give you small example(because there were milions of other much worse examples)-When Red Army liberated Pskov(it was occupied from 1941 until 1945), from 50 thousands of people living here before the war only 300 were alive.
There are so many forgotten tears, so many forgotten slaughtered people.
Even now archeologists find more and more victims of WW2 in our soil. So all the dead are not buried.
So, the memory is still fresh..
Just imagine-ALL members of current Russian generation have some older relative who was either killed, crippled or survived the WW2. It's a terrible scar of our past.

Of course, we've got lots of German expositions in our mueseums, a lots of books written by German veterans(mostly generals, but there are lower officers and ordinary soldiers as well) published in Russian, and Germany army, German history is studied in our universeties. But of course, there are lots of bitterness.

That's why I say that Russian history, history of Russian ordinary people during WW2(and not only it) is very tragic- soldiers and officers who defeated Nazi regime, who pushed back terrible war machine with unimaginable suffering, choking in blood and tears, were later prosecuted by their own country, after all that they've given to their Motherland, Motherland gave back camps and repressions back to them. That's the most tragic moment.And even now, our current goverment don't give a damn about WW2 veterans. They are mistreated and their existance is only used for great celebration of Victory Day on 9 of may for officials. It's a national shame.


Yeah, I know that in the West there are lots of speculations regarding Red Army crimes in Prussia and Berlin, but hell, that is not justifed- crimes are usual(as horrible as it sounds) practice during any given conflict from both sides. Even Americans and British raped. Not in such scale(Although accounts and research of mass rapes and plunder are still debated even among the western and russian researchers). Yeah, those who raped were bastards. Yeah, the scales of those criems were terrible and it's a very dark page of history.
But just imagine all those badly equiped infantrymen, who were shot by NKVD units behind, their back, living in a constant fear of political prosecution, who lost their families, their kids, their wives, their homes...Just imagine how much hatred were within Red Army soldiers when after five years of war that was historically unique in total amount of hatred,injustice and suffering, they steped, after neraly impossible struggle, on enemy soil. I'm not justifying their actions, I just explain how it happened that way. So we all should see historical value of Red Army struggle.

You sohudn't forget that Red Army was almost all alone until 1944, when in 1943, with all most all european part of Soviet Union occupied and tortured, Soviet troops hold back 80%(!) of highly trained and professional Wermacht- former Soviet peasents and engenieers, teachers and artirsts, journalists, writers- everyone was fighting.
Yeah of course, there were ariel Allied bombardments, Allied supply help, African and Sicilian campaign, but just compare the scales of the operations on the Eastern Front and any other given Allied military effort. Please understand- I honor and admire Allied soldiers who fought and spilled blood for their countries with great courage and dignity, and without Allied help Soviets could have lost, but Red Army took the main blow of German hammer- that is out of question.

And that is why I think that West culture should be a litte bit more objective and grateful then it is. On this forum I've heard comments that Red army was worse then SS. Well, though still being an army(that means criminal), it saved everyone on this planet. You may think that it sounds wrong.
On the west, all attention is thrown to Allied efforts, theories are being made to prove that only Sicialian or African campaign was vital, only war with Japan deserves attention and only Overlord operaition is worthy of patrotic movies.

But just study and compare the sheer SCALES of operations on the Eastern Front- and numbers of casualties.

Just don't get me wrong. it's really wise of the Allied side that they tried not to send their people to bloodbath. But someone should take the main blow. And yeah that blow was taken by Soviet people, mostly Russians and other minorities living in Soviet Union.
Soviet state didn't care about people lives. It didn't care about people's opinions. It was terrilble, bloody empire with power-hubgry leaders.



But think of ordinary people. I'm not saying about fucked communist ideology, Soviet system, Stalin, NKVD etc. that was terrible. But there was a geat sacrifce from ordinary people. And that's why we all should pay a little respect for Ivan. Not commissars.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Corporate Ignorance thanks on museams they have german input,i though they did not,like germany cemetry wise they destroyed most right just covering them up.Like i read in a book there where a few graves,but not many where there, maybe this is just russia itself,as no idea on the ukriane etc...
Like i dont blame them for covering up the graves,but maybe they have let the germans come back and gather remains like they u.s dose sometimes for the korea's and vietnam or did they,like when people find bones in fields etc..Like in france and italy the germans or some of them where buried and are taken care of i think by there graves oganisations?,they dont get to many monuments or any? to much i think in these places they fought in only germany maybe,(Sorry for going off topic,i do that a bit).

[Corporate Ignorance]

In Russia, there are lots of German graveyards...
Even in my region there are few.

And they are in the same conditions as any other military graveyard(that includes our soldiers graves too) here- some are being cared of, some not.

And after the fall of Soviet Union many delegation of German veterans and relatives of the fallen soldiers were being able to come to visit the graves. And those visits occur very often. Nowadays, Russia has pretty good relationships with Germany.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Thanks Corporate Ignorance from wha ti read or thought the germans graves where destroyed,well some had to have been,maybe where the germans did some atrocities etc..
On some it would be hard to look after unless the grave organsiations of vets etc.. look after them or the german military dose maybe?.

[Corporate Ignorance]

Yeah, of course, many were destroyed, but great amount still exists...Yeah, and German side really tries to care after them.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Thanks for the info Corporate Ignorance.