View Full Version : Friendly fire pilot back in Iraq..
xplosiv
04-17-2007, 04:33 PM
You may remember the recent friendly fire incident involving a trigger happy American Thunderbolt pilot who managed to attack a column of british armour and kill Lance Coporal Hull in Iraq. The incident was all over the news, including a video of the pilots 'gun cam'. I recently read that one of the pilots that took part in this is going to be redeployed to Iraq! Ironically, the sqn he has been assigned to will be 'providing close air support for ground troops'! :mad:
Source - BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6557699.stm)
Practically a slap on the wrist..Fucking shocking! I bet if it was the other way 'round, it would've been a different bloody story!
Sgt So and So
04-17-2007, 05:25 PM
The problem is, our nation is too far up their own asses with internal affairs to care about anything outside of national tragedies. If it was an AMERICAN soldier that died of friendly fire, oh, hell, that guy's ass would be roasting so hot right now...
D.O.A
04-17-2007, 06:37 PM
That war for you...shocking
Thanato
04-17-2007, 06:55 PM
Wasn't the pilot told to attack an armoured column in that Area? or something? And didnt the Pilot afterwards say something to the effect of 'Oh shit, oh shit, I think we strafed friendlies'? or something to that effect?
Also wasn't it found that the british didn't have the Friendly identification Orange markers on their vehicals?
I don't know I am just asking...
~Thanato
Total_Overkill
04-17-2007, 06:56 PM
You may remember the recent friendly fire incident involving a trigger happy American Thunderbolt pilot who managed to attack a column of british armour and kill Lance Coporal Hull in Iraq. The incident was all over the news, including a video of the pilots 'gun cam'. I recently read that one of the pilots that took part in this is going to be redeployed to Iraq! Ironically, the sqn he has been assigned to will be 'providing close air support for ground troops'! :mad:
Source - BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6557699.stm)
Practically a slap on the wrist..Fucking shocking! I bet if it was the other way 'round, it would've been a different bloody story!
Didnt the same thing happen to a group of Canadians as well? For some reason i keep thinking that there are multiple incidents like this (and im probably right)
To hell with 'smart bombs' the US airforce better start making some 'smart fuckin pilots'
Total_Overkill
04-17-2007, 06:59 PM
The problem is, our nation is too far up their own asses with internal affairs to care about anything outside of national tragedies. If it was an AMERICAN soldier that died of friendly fire, oh, hell, that guy's ass would be roasting so hot right now...
Heh, unless it was American on American friendly fire.... google Pat Tillman (90% sure on that name) that was a disgraceful cover up
Thanato
04-17-2007, 07:06 PM
Didnt the same thing happen to a group of Canadians as well?
Yes but that was just a genuin case of mistaken identity. The Pilot was told that there was a group of Taliban in the area and that there was a fire. The Canadian camp was close to the front lines and they had started a fire to burn grabage. unfortinatly an entire platoon was basicly taken out. Luckely, yet unfortinatly, only one person died in the incedent. 30 or so Soldiers were wounded.
~Thanato
enigma
04-17-2007, 07:24 PM
Wasn't the pilot told to attack an armoured column in that Area? or something? And didnt the Pilot afterwards say something to the effect of 'Oh shit, oh shit, I think we strafed friendlies'? or something to that effect?
Also wasn't it found that the british didn't have the Friendly identification Orange markers on their vehicals?
I don't know I am just asking...
~Thanato
What i remember from the vid they asked what the orange ID markers were for and then the pilot who straffed them stated he believed those orange markers were towed missiles or some such.
ShaunCowdell
04-18-2007, 03:00 AM
Regardless, they were under orders. You could hear how distraught they were.
BillSpargo
04-18-2007, 06:07 AM
I'm back in the saddle again
Out where a friend is a friend
Where the longhorn cattle feed
On the lowly gypsum weed
Back in the saddle again
Ridin' the range once more
Totin' my old .44
Where you sleep out every night
And the only law is right
Back in the saddle again
Whoopi-ty-aye-oh
Rockin' to and fro
Back in the saddle again
Whoopi-ty-aye-yay
I go my way
Back in the saddle again
I think it was a bad case of intelligence on our part, the pilots were seriously honestly sorry and distraught after they found out it was friendlies. They mistook the Orange Markers for RPGs or missiles IIRC? But regardless the US did do little in the way of reprimanding.
Sgt So and So
04-18-2007, 02:28 PM
Heh, unless it was American on American friendly fire.... google Pat Tillman (90% sure on that name) that was a disgraceful cover up
Yeah, I know about that. A shame that our industrialistic society has come to the point where our government gives us only the information they want us to have unless we ask. Pretty soon, you're not even going to be ABLE to ask...
Total_Overkill
04-18-2007, 04:07 PM
I think it was a bad case of intelligence on our part, the pilots were seriously honestly sorry and distraught after they found out it was friendlies. They mistook the Orange Markers for RPGs or missiles IIRC? But regardless the US did do little in the way of reprimanding.
Ya speaking of which, did the pilot ever say his appologies to the families of those soldiers yet? some how i doubt it
enigma
04-18-2007, 05:46 PM
Yeah, I know about that. A shame that our industrialistic society has come to the point where our government gives us only the information they want us to have unless we ask. Pretty soon, you're not even going to be ABLE to ask...
Over here we have Freedom of information ...
and if it came down to what you say ... remember we live in the west ... speak up! ... do something about it! :p
It seemed to me that it was more of a fault in the air control, or lack of co-operation between British and American ground forces. Didn't the pilots try to confirm the identity of the convoy several times, state they saw something that looked like orange markers, yet were still ordered to fire?
Wasn't the pilot told to attack an armoured column in that Area? or something? And didnt the Pilot afterwards say something to the effect of 'Oh shit, oh shit, I think we strafed friendlies'? or something to that effect?
Also wasn't it found that the british didn't have the Friendly identification Orange markers on their vehicals?
I don't know I am just asking...
~Thanato
I dont think they were told there was something in the area, not sure about that though. But they were very quick to fire on them after they were told there were no friendly armour in the area. The Brits did have orange markers but the pilot thought they were 'orange rockets'.
The pilots clearly sounded annoyed at themselves afterwards, with one saying 'were going to jail dude'.
Total_Overkill
04-18-2007, 06:50 PM
The Brits did have orange markers but the pilot thought they were 'orange rockets'.
WTF? are we playing NERF in Iraq? I can only imagine that the Brits had the orange markers on their vehicles, i also dont think the Brits have exposed rocket systems on their vehicles, hell i dont think they have exposed rocket systems period... i highly doubt the Brits had an orange painted V2 rocket stashed near their position (ya crude example)
The pilots clearly sounded annoyed at themselves afterwards, with one saying 'were going to jail dude'.[/QUOTE]
that sounds so.... "proffesional" :rolleyes:
sorry i should have said he thought they were enemy 'orange rockets'...which is ridiculous, I mean wtf?
Total_Overkill
04-18-2007, 07:00 PM
sorry i should have said he thought they were enemy 'orange rockets'...which is ridiculous, I mean wtf?
yes, i know perfectly well what you meant, and while im sure some missle/rocket some where has a brightly colored tip as part of its "design"... "Insergents" dont have any type of weapons platform that a jetfighter pilot should/would be able to see, i mean, if the pilot can see an orange colored RPG round... THEN he should have been able to realise who the bad guy was >.< its not like Insergents have tanks and apc's rollin around.... right? :eek:
Thanato
04-18-2007, 09:12 PM
I don't think the pilot meant the Rockets them selves but their carrying case or launching Case. Which would be fairly large.
~Thanato
enigma
04-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Part 1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MfK5kRkMgQ4)
Part 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cN7fgLSWrVw&mode=related&search=)
Theres the video, everyone can update themselves on what happened (as always avoid reading the comments on youtube ... there just blaiming everyone in those converstaions).
Saden
04-20-2007, 01:17 AM
@ Total Overkill
They're just pilots man, they're basically like you and I, except with military training, they still talk like buddies to each other. It would be kind of wierd if it was like: 'Sir, we are going to jail.'
'Roger that.'
Wide Awake
04-20-2007, 11:08 AM
You may remember the recent friendly fire incident involving a trigger happy American Thunderbolt pilot who managed to attack a column of british armour and kill Lance Coporal Hull in Iraq.[/quote]
Yeah he is really trigger happy when he asks about 5 times saying "they look like they have orange tags on them are you sure we don't have friendlies in this area" It's bad intel it's not like hey man I have got a great idea lets start strafing british columns it would be great fun.
biggles
04-23-2007, 04:46 PM
Awake got a point (as many others). I for don't blame the pilots at all. Theywere obviously upset, and theydid a fatal mistake, butthat's war: people die, and friendly fire is a reality. Besides, I wouldn't be suprised at all if things like this happens more than we know. The media can't be everywhere, and for obvious reason I don't think that the U.S wants to put too much attention to these things. Not good for morale....
You may remember the recent friendly fire incident involving a trigger happy American Thunderbolt pilot who managed to attack a column of british armour and kill Lance Coporal Hull in Iraq.
Yeah he is really trigger happy when he asks about 5 times saying "they look like they have orange tags on them are you sure we don't have friendlies in this area" It's bad intel it's not like hey man I have got a great idea lets start strafing british columns it would be great fun.
they only asked twice before they started shooting, and i think its pretty obvious they were trigger happy just by what one of them was saying, and the fact they realised straight after that they were infact orange ID panels :rolleyes: I certainly dont think it was all the pilots' fault however.
ShaunCowdell
04-23-2007, 06:37 PM
In the military orders take priority over everything.
In the military orders take priority over everything.
yes but the orders are issued by the information they are fed.
enigma
04-23-2007, 08:27 PM
In the military orders take priority over everything.
The best tactical and strategical situations arise because people ignore orders...
Manstein
04-23-2007, 08:49 PM
The best tactical and strategical situations arise because people ignore orders...
And hindsight is always 20/20. I didn't hear anything that led me to believe the pilots were trigger happy, they verfied twice from intel that there were no friendlies.
Insergents" dont have any type of weapons platform that a jetfighter pilot should/would be able to see, i mean, if the pilot can see an orange colored RPG round... THEN he should have been able to realise who the bad guy was >.< its not like Insergents have tanks and apc's rollin around.... right?
The incident happened in 2003, there was no insurgency as such at that time, it could've just as easily been some Iraqi military units, it's pretty obvious that's what they thought it was
Thanato
04-23-2007, 08:59 PM
In the military orders take priority over everything.
Yes. . . unless it is an illegal order.
~Thanato
|:XAS:| Bravo
04-23-2007, 09:26 PM
Here's the facts. The Army always covers stuff up, join the Marine Corps if you want your next of kin to know what happened to you. In the case of the pilot, he was ordered to attack in that location and even double checked with command to see if any friendlies were in that area. Don't say trigger happy American because that only pisses me off, a "trigger happy American" is a person who has never been in combat and has watched much too many action movies.
Seriously if you guys wanna Bush-bash or just downgrade the free nation then send the PMs at me, it's better you get embarrassed in Private Messaging than get embarrassed in public forum. I'm tired of all this liberal/anti-US/anti-Bush bullshit here. Common sense fails to show for many of you.
enigma
04-23-2007, 09:46 PM
And hindsight is always 20/20.
Which is supose to mean?
My comment was based on the previous coment which from my studies doesnt seem to be correct.
I.e Rommel arrives in Afrika with orders to defend what the Italians have left, he launches an offensive and takes the strategic inititive.
Also worth of note is the countless accounts of platoon leaders, Sgts, regular joes launching counterattacks, capturing bridges etc agaisnt orders or without them... gaining the tactical inititive etc
Sgt So and So
04-23-2007, 09:49 PM
Over here we have Freedom of information ...
and if it came down to what you say ... remember we live in the west ... speak up! ... do something about it! :p
Dear sir, I live in Vermont. People in the state next to us (New York) think we're part of Canada, England, Europe, or don't know that we exist at all.
I think it's safe to say I'm a tad isolated from the Western world.
Manstein
04-23-2007, 10:04 PM
Which is supose to mean?
My comment was based on the previous coment which from my studies doesnt seem to be correct.
I.e Rommel arrives in Afrika with orders to defend what the Italians have left, he launches an offensive and takes the strategic inititive.
Also worth of note is the countless accounts of platoon leaders, Sgts, regular joes launching counterattacks, capturing bridges etc agaisnt orders or without them... gaining the tactical inititive etc
Considering the subject of the thread, I thought your comment was insinuating that the pilots should have disobeyed their orders to attack the convoy.
Total_Overkill
04-23-2007, 10:05 PM
Thought i'd just correct a few things in here...
Seriously if you guys wanna Bush-bash or just downgrade a (changed "the" to "a" because your not the only free nation in the world >.>) free nation then post it on the political forum so we can have competent discussions about it, where the information will be examined by several people, to help minimize B.S on both sides (formerly "send the PMs at me, it's better you get embarrassed in Private Messaging than get embarrassed in public forum."
I'm tired of the world seeing all of Americas screw ups, i dont want them to judge us, like we judge them (formerly "all this Liberal/Anti-US/Anti-Bush bullshit here"). Political Correctness (Formerly Common sense) fails to show for many of you.
Reasons for the changes? removal of bias :D (or am i the one being bias because im not an American Republican?:rolleyes: )
/Bash hehe
enigma
04-23-2007, 10:15 PM
Considering the subject of the thread, I thought your comment was insinuating that the pilots should have disobeyed their orders to attack the convoy.
Oh right :)
I dunno about this whole situation no more, i guess balls ups happen :confused:
NicholasJohnson
04-23-2007, 10:20 PM
People in the state next to us (New York) think we're part of Canada, England, Europe, or don't know that we exist at all.
Well in your defense, New Yorkers tend to treat the rest of America like that as well as Vermont :P
Total_Overkill
04-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Well in your defense, New Yorkers tend to treat the rest of America like that as well as Vermont :P
Which is probably why Texans and Yorkers get along so well... ;)
|:XAS:| Bravo
04-23-2007, 10:23 PM
Erg. Asshole. Definitely not even close to what I said.
I'm tired of the world seeing all of Americas screw ups, i dont want them to judge us, like we judge them (formerly "all this Liberal/Anti-US/Anti-Bush bullshit here").
Yeah you've just made an enemy. What country are we judging? The BS comes from the liberals in the US who then spread the BS to other countries who copy it. There is very little to zero screw ups, the liberals want to pick at every little thing to lower the president's approval rating.
Want the real news from Iraq? Go to Youtube.com and search for "MNFIRAQ" and watch all the vids. The crap on the TV
is nothing but negatives.
FUCK BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT! How many times have we said that in these forums? Political correctness is a bunch of bull made for softies!
biggles
04-23-2007, 10:33 PM
Mate, calm down. Let's not turn this into something ugly. I think we're off topic anyway, this is not supposed to be about Bush, but about the fact that an american pilot that did a fatal mistake has returned to service in Iraq. Good? Bad? nothing special? I don't know.
And you won't find me talk BS about U.S here. I've been there many times, and most of the stuff I've seen has been good. But then you have to understand that not everyone agrees that America had something to do in Iraq. what I say? I keep that to myself.
Total_Overkill
04-23-2007, 10:35 PM
Erg. Asshole. Definitely not even close to what I said.
I said i changed it right?
Yeah you've just made an enemy.
Easy Rambo, learn to take a joke before you try to shoot me ;)
What country are we judging?
What country? i believe i said world, which would include all countries other then the U.S... so... all countries would be the answer
The BS comes from the liberals in the US who then spread the BS to other countries who copy it. There is very little to zero screw ups, the liberals want to pick at every little thing to lower the president's approval rating.
B.S comes from all sides, you gotta learn to sort through everything, Liberals BS, Republicans BS, Hippie BS, Warmonger BS, Corporate BS...
Want the real news from Iraq? Go to Youtube.com and search for "MNFIRAQ" and watch all the vids. The crap on the TV is nothing but negatives.
Yes, there are good things going on, and bad as well... no denying it (TV news sucks anyways)
FUCK BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT! How many times have we said that in these forums? Political correctness is a bunch of bull made for softies!
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