Iraqi Resistance Propaganda [Archive] - 1944 D-Day : Operation Overlord : Official Game Forums

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-04-2007, 04:59 AM

Uh no. Their media only tells them what they want to hear, and what you hear is what they hear.

We aren't "in their backyard" doing whatever we want, we are giving the people freedom. Besides they accuse us of trespassing but it's perfectly OK to crash planes into buildings to kill thousands of our people. What the hell did we do to them? Don't ask me why we started the war, the fact is it's here and we must finish it with the morals of a free people.

Did you know these fanatics were about to blow up a couple of schools for young girls in Iraq? Guess not, welcome to the reality. Al Qaeda has a ton of severely messed up opium infested minds in their system. It's not only education they're against, it's also the Zionists and the Jews
they are after.

They work on one principle: spread Islam by the sword. Pretty much kill them if they don't convert. Which after just Google-ing "islam sword" you find many sites explaining that this is not written and is a perversion of the Koran.

That's all this shit is about; the perversion of an incorrect interpretation and fighting it to maintain a peace in this world.

NightStalker, I don't say this only to you but to others as well. Do some research, check out the explanations of both sides of the table and pick the one which makes moral and logical sense.

BTW, I'm still sticking to Jesus. Even if all Muslims were peaceful there's still stuff in the religion that makes me think "what idiot thought of this?". Answer: Mohamed.

To you Darwin guys: How come living things can't come from nonliving matter but we evolved? If we evolved then why is it wrong to kill?

I might get banned for the religion stuff, but isn't religion a belief? Isn't politics a belief as well?

Thanato

06-04-2007, 05:47 AM

Wait. . . that guy sounds Western...

~Thanato

scottdog

06-04-2007, 06:08 AM

@Bravo, Stop comparing 9/11 with iraq. Is it fair that if a country in the west does something wrong to another country, that country thats had injustice done to them should be able to use that as an excuse to go into another country?

There are so many examples of this in the world, take isreal for example, they got given that land because of the holocaust(and it was America who gave them that land), but as a result the palestinians got kicked out of that land.

I'm saying stop using 9/11 as a reason for "trespassing", you went into iraq for Sadam not Bin laden.

2ltben

06-04-2007, 06:35 AM

We aren't "in their backyard" doing whatever we want, we are giving the people freedom.
Nope, police state.

Besides they accuse us of trespassing but it's perfectly OK to crash planes into buildings to kill thousands of our people.
Which they didn't do. Those people are in Afghanistan and the tribal area of Pakistan.

What the hell did we do to them?
We took out their dictator and oppressive government and replaced it with mob rule and anarchy. Look at the death count of more than just US troops.

Don't ask me why we started the war, the fact is it's here and we must finish it with the morals of a free people.
Not even sure what you mean by that.

Did you know these fanatics were about to blow up a couple of schools for young girls in Iraq? Guess not, welcome to the reality. Al Qaeda has a ton of severely messed up opium infested minds in their system. It's not only education they're against, it's also the Zionists and the Jews
they are after.
You act like Zionists arn't Jews to begin with.

They work on one principle: spread Islam by the sword.
Sunni Islam.

Pretty much kill them if they don't convert.
Fairly sure they will anyway.

Which after just Google-ing "islam sword" you find many sites explaining that this is not written and is a perversion of the Koran.
Muhammad did in fact spread Islam by the sword. When he first arrived at Medina he found respite with the Jews, but every time a battle came around he found some way to blame it on one Jewish tribe or another. He was a skilled politician above all.

That's all this shit is about; the perversion of an incorrect interpretation and fighting it to maintain a peace in this world.
Before you say that, what is the correct interpretation of the Qu'ran?

NightStalker, I don't say this only to you but to others as well. Do some research, check out the explanations of both sides of the table and pick the one which makes moral and logical sense.
You act like there are only two sides of the table. al-Qaeda is the least of our worries by now.

BTW, I'm still sticking to Jesus. Even if all Muslims were peaceful there's still stuff in the religion that makes me think "what idiot thought of this?". Answer: Mohamed.
Nice job destroying your own credibility and making yourself out to be a bigot.

To you Darwin guys: How come living things can't come from nonliving matter but we evolved? If we evolved then why is it wrong to kill?
In a Darwinian sense, it isn't. Look up Social Darwinism and all the horrid things that came with it. We impose our own moral zeitgeist, to borrow the term from Richard Dawkins, and that moral zeitgeist is always changing. Its why historians judge individuals by the standards of their time and not the standards of the present.

I might get banned for the religion stuff, but isn't religion a belief? Isn't politics a belief as well?
In the scalar sense yes, but it all depends on what you do with it.

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-04-2007, 06:59 PM

Nope, police state.

Say what you want about that.

Which they didn't do. Those people are in Afghanistan and the tribal area of Pakistan.AL Qaeda is not only Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are all over the world and the people I'm talking about throughout the whole post was about them, Saddam and his Republican Guard is not who we are fighting right now, it is Al Qaeda.

We took out their dictator and oppressive government and replaced it with mob rule and anarchy. Look at the death count of more than just US troops.Mob rule and anarchy eh? Tell that to the thousands of Iraqi Police we are training.

Not even sure what you mean by that.It's the same thing the veterans and active duty guys are saying. It no longer matter why we went there, it's about finishing the fight without leaving the country in shambles.

You act like Zionists arn't Jews to begin with.They say both so I put both.

Sunni Islam.Yes I know.

Fairly sure they will anyway.Duh. We leave now, they will attack again.

Muhammad did in fact spread Islam by the sword. When he first arrived at Medina he found respite with the Jews, but every time a battle came around he found some way to blame it on one Jewish tribe or another. He was a skilled politician above all.
Before you say that, what is the correct interpretation of the Qu'ran?It sure as hell isn't killing people if they don't convert.

You act like there are only two sides of the table. al-Qaeda is the least of our worries by now.Yes two or more, likely more. If Al Qaeda isn't then what is? Global warming?

Nice job destroying your own credibility and making yourself out to be a bigot.A bigot eh? Well so have you destroyed your own credibility as well if you say that.

"Christian? Ha he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about! He believes in a 'God'! LOL"

Darwinist. Believes we came from a fish! LOL! Where's our common ancestor oh Sir. Darwin?

In a Darwinian sense, it isn't. Look up Social Darwinism and all the horrid things that came with it. We impose our own moral zeitgeist, to borrow the term from Richard Dawkins, and that moral zeitgeist is always changing. Its why historians judge individuals by the standards of their time and not the standards of the present.Always changing, bah! You haven't answered how macro-evolution could've possibly happened when the law (which I found in the same biology textbook) clearly states living things cannot come from nonliving matter?

In the scalar sense yes, but it all depends on what you do with it.Well I believe politics are a belief; so my belief is my religion, thus any punishment would be persecution.

Hehe I love how the liberals can be "tolerant" and have it turned against them. "I believe murder is fine. If you jail me then you are being intolerant of my religion."

DavidUpton

06-05-2007, 01:44 AM

That video is clearly full of bullshit.

"We do not require arms of fighters, for we have plenty"
This clashes somewhat with:
"If only we had more cameras"
Surely if they can afford weapons, they can afford cameras?

Apparantly the plan of USA and Britain is to stand up to China and break up a unified Europe, even though Britain is part of Europe. Riiight...

Colonel von Luger

06-05-2007, 02:27 AM

Lol, I love flamewars...........

2ltben

06-05-2007, 04:05 AM

AL Qaeda is not only Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are all over the world and the people I'm talking about throughout the whole post was about them, Saddam and his Republican Guard is not who we are fighting right now, it is Al Qaeda.
al-Qaeda represents a minority among the Iraqi insurgency that believes in religious fundamentalism. Don't forget that Iraq and for the most part still is one of the most secular nations in the Middle East.

Mob rule and anarchy eh? Tell that to the thousands of Iraqi Police we are training.
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that are dying from car bombs and death squads.

It's the same thing the veterans and active duty guys are saying. It no longer matter why we went there, it's about finishing the fight without leaving the country in shambles.
On this I agree. I still can't see the hypocracy of a pullout supported by those who fight for the refugees in Darfur and Palestine and throughout the world. We fucked up, and while we're probably not going to fix it within the remainder of the decade, we can't leave a power vacuum for the fundamentalists and despots.

Duh. We leave now, they will attack again.
They won't if we stay?

A bigot eh? Well so have you destroyed your own credibility as well if you say that.
I'd be interestedn hearing your rebuke on that.

Always changing, bah! You haven't answered how macro-evolution could've possibly happened when the law (which I found in the same biology textbook) clearly states living things cannot come from nonliving matter?
Because it didn't happen by magic. Increasingly complex molecules kept being formed in the early, Hadean Earth out of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen(not that much before cyanobacteria), Nitrogen, Sulfur, and Phosphorous, which eventually formed RNA, then DNA, and then cyanobacteria. It took about 3.5 billion years after that to form complex life. I highly suggest reading The Selfish Gene, it properly explains evolution and disspells many of the myths surrounding it.

Well I believe politics are a belief; so my belief is my religion, thus any punishment would be persecution.
There's a difference between philosophy and religion, and science is not a religion.

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-05-2007, 04:52 AM

al-Qaeda represents a minority among the Iraqi insurgency that believes in religious fundamentalism. Don't forget that Iraq and for the most part still is one of the most secular nations in the Middle East.

Minority? Whoa now that's just really incorrect.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that are dying from car bombs and death squads.Who's doing the killing? Hm I wonder why the IP is there.

On this I agree. I still can't see the hypocracy of a pullout supported by those who fight for the refugees in Darfur and Palestine and throughout the world. We fucked up, and while we're probably not going to fix it within the remainder of the decade, we can't leave a power vacuum for the fundamentalists and despots.It won't take that long, but if it does I'll likely be deployed there.

They won't if we stay?"You've captured or killed tens of thousands of extremists; taking the fight to where they live; rather than waiting for the extremists to attack us again; where our families live... so that your children and grandchildren will not have to face the challenges that we face today." -Donald Rumsfeld

"We must take the battle to the enemy, disrupt his plans and confront the worst threats before they emerge." -President George W. Bush

I'd be interestedn hearing your rebuke on that.Eh?

Because it didn't happen by magic. Increasingly complex molecules kept being formed in the early, Hadean Earth out of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen(not that much before cyanobacteria), Nitrogen, Sulfur, and Phosphorous, which eventually formed RNA, then DNA, and then cyanobacteria. It took about 3.5 billion years after that to form complex life. I highly suggest reading The Selfish Gene, it properly explains evolution and disspells many of the myths surrounding it.Yeah... didn't they do an expirement or something where they ended up with amino acids? And how does an amino acid make an entire cell?

There's a difference between philosophy and religion, and science is not a religion.It can be. Tom Cruise?

scottdog

06-05-2007, 05:39 AM

Minority? Whoa now that's just really incorrect.

NO... Most of the people you are fighting in Iraq are acctually "Freedom Fighters"(something you americans love so much), the freedom your giving them might not acctually be the freedom they want.

One of my teachers and alot of iraqis were i live said they are glad Saddam has gone, but they do not want a US installed Government.

"You've captured or killed tens of thousands of extremists; taking the fight to where they live; rather than waiting for the extremists to attack us again; where our families live... so that your children and grandchildren will not have to face the challenges that we face today." -Donald Rumsfeld

"We must take the battle to the enemy, disrupt his plans and confront the worst threats before they emerge." -President George W. Bush

Extremists at heart? Middle eastern people are not the only extremists, you could get extremist attacks from within your own country.
Would you call the columbine and Virgina tech shooters extremists?

It can be. Tom Cruise?

Um no, science is based on evidence, scientology is a religion.

And if you want to go into religion, i think buddism is the most moral and politicaly correct religion.

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-05-2007, 06:07 AM

NO... Most of the people you are fighting in Iraq are acctually "Freedom Fighters"(something you americans love so much), the freedom your giving them might not acctually be the freedom they want.

Oh really? They all sure come from the same place. They may not be a member of Al Qaeda but they are sure taught and brain washed by them.

One of my teachers and alot of iraqis were i live said they are glad Saddam has gone, but they do not want a US installed Government.

What else do they want? To be dictated by the Fedayeen?

Extremists at heart? Middle eastern people are not the only extremists, you could get extremist attacks from within your own country.
Would you call the columbine and Virgina tech shooters extremists?

Columbine and the VT thing were of social reasons. We already have a weapon for this; mediation. Sad though that people fail to seek help for their pride sake.

Um no, science is based on evidence, scientology is a religion.

Science; the search for the truth. Scientology is based on this. The problem is there is no common ancestor, and that tree of life thing is more like the grass of life. They all are common a couple of times, never do they join up.

And if you want to go into religion, i think buddism is the most moral and politicaly correct religion.

Morals yes, PC hell no. There's too much tolerance already. Trying not to be offensive to anyone or anything is impossible. Someone doesn't
like your pants, they are offended. Don't like your food, offensive. It can go on.

chip360

06-05-2007, 06:12 AM

Lol u guys... wow..

Well they dont call this the political forum for nothin'

I ges Ill just sit back, open a fresh can of soda, and listen to both sides to keep my objectiveness... Ahhh fresh cold soda... :)

scottdog

06-05-2007, 06:40 AM

Total_Overkill

06-05-2007, 10:56 AM

To you Darwin guys: How come living things can't come from nonliving matter but we evolved? If we evolved then why is it wrong to kill?

wait wait wait.... its wrong to kill? :eek: when the hell did this happen? damn... late for work one day and i miss a global memo... :mad: Satans gonna be pissed i didnt stop this radical movement in time.

(smartasstics aside)

The "reason" killing is "wrong" (in our own species) is an innate survival instinct of "you dont kill me, i wont kill you"... unfortunately all civilization is built around this, but on the up side, it only applies to members of your "personal click" thus leaving room for war (yeah!)

Sound likely enough? :D

Colonel von Luger

06-05-2007, 05:26 PM

I think buddism is the most moral and politicaly correct religion.

Meh, I'd go with hinduism, not that they're not similar.

CBowling

06-05-2007, 09:59 PM

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind ...a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist."

-Albert Einstein.

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-05-2007, 11:47 PM

Go Einstein!

NightStalker

06-06-2007, 12:55 AM

NightStalker, I don't say this only to you but to others as well. Do some research, check out the explanations of both sides of the table and pick the one which makes moral and logical sense.

BTW, I'm still sticking to Jesus. Even if all Muslims were peaceful there's still stuff in the religion that makes me think "what idiot thought of this?". Answer: Mohamed.

Hey, maybe you're right. I was just saying that I'd be alittle pissed if people were occupying my country. Especially if I had privatized armies shooting civilians and the occupying army spreading a large amount of propaganda.

On your second note:
You've never read the Qur'an I see. Nor have you read the bible. If you READ the bible, you'll notice there are SOME things that are pretty rediculous. I'm not bashing Jesus, just the religion around him.

Note: Before we get into a religious flamewar, go read Matthew 6:5 and 6:6

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-06-2007, 02:44 AM

Nope don't know Arabic, I have read the things on the sites though. Many are from the FAQs about Islam. More than one site.

Well I do read the Bible, and I don't see what you're are trying to get to me about Matthew 6:5-6.

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly I say to you, they have received their reward.

But when you pray, go into your room and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."Doesn't make sense right? That's why you must remember this rule: Never read a Bible verse; read the entire passage. Let's read 6:1-4.

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.So what does verses 1-4 mean? They mean that you can do good in public, just don't show it off like the "hypocrites" (Pharisees) do. In other words don't go out in public giving food to the hungry just to gain attention from witnesses (publicity stunts). The reward for this is of course a false "kind heart" status to all around you and no reward from God.

So what verses 5-6 mean is this; don't pray in public to make others falsely perceive you as "holy" or close to God. You can pray in public, but to do it for social gain is unrighteous.

Basically verses 1-18 is all about doing things for God, not to do things to make yourself look good.

Getting good at this :p.

2ltben

06-06-2007, 03:40 AM

Minority? Whoa now that's just really incorrect.
Nope. Jaish al-Mahdi is by and large the majority in Iraq.

Who's doing the killing? Hm I wonder why the IP is there.
Except when death squads sneak in and use their training and form death squads when they're off duty.

It won't take that long, but if it does I'll likely be deployed there.
I can't remember if it was Rumsfeld or Cheney who quoted that a dozen years or so wouldn't be that off the charts.

"You've captured or killed tens of thousands of extremists; taking the fight to where they live; rather than waiting for the extremists to attack us again; where our families live... so that your children and grandchildren will not have to face the challenges that we face today." -Donald Rumsfeld

"We must take the battle to the enemy, disrupt his plans and confront the worst threats before they emerge." -President George W. Bush
Hook, line, and sinker.

Eh?
I want to know your logic behind your statement.

Yeah... didn't they do an expirement or something where they ended up with amino acids? And how does an amino acid make an entire cell?
They tried to simulate a process which took billions or years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution
This is a really condensed version, but it explains the basics of it.

It can be. Tom Cruise?
You're comparing millenia of logic and reasoning, Aristotle, Ptolemy, Kepler, Newton, Hooke, Bacon, Einstein, Rutherford, Gauss, Heisenberg, Weinstein, Feynmann, Hawking, Kaku... to an untalented writer of space opera dime novels and his following of talented rock musicians and actors past their prime?

And Bravo, unless you actually know Koine Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, or Arabic, I don't think your sources are entirely accurate. You say you've read the Bible, but you've never read the Qu'ran, the Upanishads, the Vedas, or the Tanakh. What right does that give you to criticize the religion of others?

*edit*
I think the Dharmic religions as a whole are more readily tuned to accept the nature of modern cosmology than the Abrahamic religions.

Colonel von Luger

06-06-2007, 03:51 AM

If we're in the mood for criticizing religion let it be druidism (worshipping of trees).

Now there's a stupid religion if any, how could you possibly be a druid and not have anything not made out of trees? It's immposible.

Also what kind of tree is eligible to be a god? Personaly I say Oaks but who knows...............:p

2ltben

06-06-2007, 03:59 AM

Careful about how far you go. I'm not going to close it myself because I don't have a neutral judgement on this matter, but if it takes a turn for the worse I'm sure someone else will.

|:XAS:| Bravo

06-06-2007, 04:21 AM

Hey it came from their mouths... or fingers. They tell me about it and I criticize it. One of my good friends is a Muslim and we always talk about this stuff. Do you know all those languages and read all those texts? What right does that give you to criticize these religions?

Because I state my faith does not take my credibility right down the drain. If anything hypocrisy is what just came out of your mouth. I can say the same for you. You believe you are right and I believe I am right, so because of my religious belief you think I am wrong, and I think you are wrong in your belief. Sound about right?

The Cambrian explosion... what explanation can you give me for that? What is your theory?

Why do scientists always exclude the possiblility of an intelligent creator? If science is the search for the truth then why is it always ignored? The belief of a God has been around for thousands of years, the belief of evolution has been around for only a couple centuries.

There's not only physical evidence of a God, there is also spiritual evidence. That can be easily attacked by those who live to disprove the Word, so then there's evidence of physical healing of major injuries and illnesses. The testimonies of millions of believers are everywhere! But yet these evolutionists ignore it.

Besides would it hurt to be a Christian? If you believe and there is a heaven then you go to heaven, if there is no heaven well then you just die like the rest. So what does it matter? Isn't it better than not believing and going to hell, or no heaven or hell and you just die?

I don't know why people even bother with trying to disprove a God, it's been what... 2 million years (according to that link) and still no real major evidence? The minors ones are easily thrown out as possibility.

2ltben

06-06-2007, 04:56 AM

Scientists don't exclude anything. Life may have evolved, life may have been the biproduct of the guidance of one or more dieties, or we may all have come from the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The sheer fact that you believe as you do is nothing more than an accident of geography. What makes you think you're right and I am wrong? For that matter what makes me think that I am right and you are wrong? What if we're both wrong and it turns out that we all come from the Great Cthulu down the bottom of the sea?

I don't resent religion, only mysticism, and nothing is ever excluded. The job of a scientist is to gather data and interpret it, and as scientists we have our own error-checking mechanisms. The goal of any given experiment is not to prove any given hypothesis, but to disprove the others. Look at the principle of aether, and look at the beliefs of late Victorian scientists who said that all science is fundamentally known and that only precision of measurements can come.

And you cite the Theory of Evolution specifically in your argument, yet it is, as a theory, one of the best proven scientific principles to date. I again recommend to you The Selfish Gene, and, to disspell the myths you may have heard about it, Richard Dawkins' old BBC documentary(the name escapes me at the moment).

And at no point in my defense of modern science did I make a statement against a God or gods, dieties, demigods, and other such positions of supernatural power. There are things that science just doesn't know. Cosmology tends to accept the hypothesis that a Multiverse does exist, but beyond the bounds or it or its origins may remain unknown throughout the existence of humanity itself, perhaps even that of sentient life. I could be a practicing Jew, Muslim, Zorastrian, Daoist, Theravada Buddhist, or Frisbeetarian, but you only assume that I'm an Atheist.

I'm not trying to attack you. For the same reasons that find it your duty to spread the word of Christ, I find it my duty to educate.

scottdog

06-06-2007, 07:53 AM

Why do scientists always exclude the possiblility of an intelligent creator? If science is the search for the truth then why is it always ignored? The belief of a God has been around for thousands of years, the belief of evolution has been around for only a couple centuries.

There is really no evidence of an intelligent creator, this doesn't rule out there might not be one. Jesus? There is no doubt he was around, yes he was a great man, preaching peace, caring and love for your neighbours(even muslims beleive he was a prophet). But arguable if he was just a great man or the son of god.
I really wish there was physical evidence of "god", it would be a great world then.

I would call science the search for an alternate truth.

2ltben

06-06-2007, 01:06 PM

There's plenty of room for religion in modern science. Look at modern cosmology. There exists multiple universes, each on the surface of an expanding, decellerating "soap bubble" if you will, and there exists an umbilical cord from a parent universe to a child universe. LISA, which should launch in 4 years with any luck, is looking for evidence of this umbilical cord because its chief purpose is to photograph the moment of creation in this universe, the moment of the Big Bang itself.

However, it is also posited that there exists space between these universes and umbilical cords in the multiverse. A space beyond space itself and existing outside of time. If you believe in a God, this is his domain.

I don't see us as special by any means simply because this universe and star system and this planet are all accidents of probability. Yes, the odds of the creation of a planet that harbors complex life are extraordinarily slim, but the number of attempts is literally infinite. We can't see all of the universe because, in a universe that's about 350 billion lightyears across, we can only see 13.7 billion light years out. The odds that a universe with our physical constants and our laws of physics being created, so that subatomic particles are stable enough to sustain a universe and that protostars and galactic disks and the first protogalaxies could form, these odds are even slimmer. Yet again, there are infinite many attempts. Everything that could happen did happen in some other alternate universe. There's a universe where something as simple as a cosmic ray hits a woman who stillbirths a child, and her name is Klara Hitler, so that Adolf Hitler is never even born to rise to power in Germany. And what happens after the First World War in his absense also presents infinitely many possibilities. Everything that has and could happen, past, present, and future tense, will and has.