Che Guevara

[NicholasJohnson]

I prefer to call Che "World's Greatest T-shirt Salesman" rather than Revolutionary, but that's just me :D

I would like to know why he, of all the communist revoultionaries, is the most "revered."

[Rapishorrid]

"I know you have come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."
-Che Guevara

I don't about the whole most revered thing and certainly don't agree with the t-shirts but that's a pretty bad ass way to go. :p

[Saden]

He was a fucking commie. 'Nuff said.

[Wide Awake]

che guevara was a murderer and an idiot.

here are some other awesome quotes by him

"I don't need proof to execute a man, I only need proof that it's necessary to execute him!"

"Executions? Certainly we execute! And we will CONTINUE executing as long as it is necessary! This is a war to the DEATH against the revolution's enemies!"

Some man to admire. I hate communism it has killed more people than Hitler ever did and it doesn't work as a form of government. It's not the governments job to take care of you its their job to help the people who fell through the cracks to get back up not to give you everything.

[scottdog]

I agree with what he was doing in south america, there was a huge injustice against the natives. It's just the way he(communists) carried it out.

[Zip]

My girlfriend Bought me a shirt with his face on it awhile back:p

[lazlazlaz1]

It's not the governments job to take care of you its their job to help the people who fell through the cracks to get back up not to give you everything.

It's not even that. It's the governments job to govern. Rule over the people of the nation in a way that they see best. The government should have no role to play in how well people live their lives, if you fail at a career it is your own fault and not the governments resposibility to pick up the pieces and give you benefits.

[JonasDahlin]

Some man to admire. I hate communism it has killed more people than Hitler ever did and it doesn't work as a form of government. It's not the governments job to take care of you its their job to help the people who fell through the cracks to get back up not to give you everything.

Then you should hate christianity even more, because that has killed even more people that communism and hitler toghter.

[SuperSoldier]

Then you should hate christianity even more, because that has killed even more people that communism and hitler toghter.

That's why I'm atheist really. Lets not get into religion though.

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

we should start making tshirts with gandhi. He was the best revolutionist in the world.

[biggles]

Here is a good T-shirt!
http://radiofreephoenix.com/images/9leb117~john-lennon-revolution.jpg
'nuff said:D

[Appleskates]

Generally the shirts are worn by hispanic teenagers in my area (though the occasional white person will wear one). I think he's sort of a symbol to them, a revolutionary that died for a cause. I have no idea how he could be, seeing his brutality and anti-freedom stance. I'd much rather wear a shirt with Reagan or Washington on the front.

[Crazythumbs]

Or one with Maddox, since he kicks ass.
http://store.theworstpageintheuniverse.com/shirts.html#GRMADSTAR

[Rapishorrid]

che guevara was a murderer and an idiot.

here are some other awesome quotes by him

"I don't need proof to execute a man, I only need proof that it's necessary to execute him!"

"Executions? Certainly we execute! And we will CONTINUE executing as long as it is necessary! This is a war to the DEATH against the revolution's enemies!"

Some man to admire. I hate communism it has killed more people than Hitler ever did and it doesn't work as a form of government. It's not the governments job to take care of you its their job to help the people who fell through the cracks to get back up not to give you everything.

He is a man to admire because he was not a coward. He not only thought, but he acted - which is partially why Jean-Paul Sartre called him the "most complete human being of our age". Whether you agree with what he fought for or not is beside the point.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Before i knew all about communism i actualy i was interested in him a bit when i was younger,even had these little russian badges we got from maybe some russians at something i totaly forget now,like i wore these little lennin badges,thinking they where good.
But he was doing his own thing and thats good for him in a way,like he left cuba i think because he fell out twith castro over something but i grew up to not like the communist ways at all or was it marxist and stalinist ways that he followed or any who did.I did not know that about him surrendering like that,not brave at all.

[Wide Awake]

He is a man to admire because he was not a coward.

this is bullshit before he was captured he ordered his men to fight to the last bullet. But he snuck away while his men died and surrendered with a full clip in his pistol saying "Don't Shoot! I'm Che! I'm worth more to you alive than dead!" bullshit he was a coward. I agree that getting rid of the last remnants of colonial power was a good thing but to admire a murderer and COWARD is downright stupid and I hate everyone who wears his t-shirt and thinks he was awesome because they know nothing about him.

[E.Gallardo]

He is a man to admire because he was not a coward.

this is bullshit before he was captured he ordered his men to fight to the last bullet. But he snuck away while his men died and surrendered with a full clip in his pistol saying "Don't Shoot! I'm Che! I'm worth more to you alive than dead!" bullshit he was a coward. I agree that getting rid of the last remnants of colonial power was a good thing but to admire a murderer and COWARD is downright stupid and I hate everyone who wears his t-shirt and thinks he was awesome because they know nothing about him.

"applaud" I couldn't have said it better myself

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

Thats why i dont admire bush...

[css2d]

Wasn't it Che who said that if the nukes where in Cuban Hands, they would have certainly be used (don't know if this was meant political as to put pressure on the United States with them, or if it was meant that if they had the finger on the triggers and not the russians, they would have used them)

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

Wasn't it Che who said that if the nukes where in Cuban Hands, they would have certainly be used (don't know if this was meant political as to put pressure on the United States with them, or if it was meant that if they had the finger on the triggers and not the russians, they would have used them)

Yeah and thereby erasing cuba from the map? i dont think they would've ever done it. Nukes are (hopefully forever) preventive weapons. If you fire one you can expect one back.

[NicholasJohnson]

Then you should hate christianity even more, because that has killed even more people that communism and hitler toghter.


Thats why i dont admire bush...

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4241/coolaf7.jpg

[enigma]

Lmfao!!!

[Dutchlike]

That totally killed the thread XD.

[Rapishorrid]

this is bullshit before he was captured he ordered his men to fight to the last bullet. But he snuck away while his men died and surrendered with a full clip in his pistol saying "Don't Shoot! I'm Che! I'm worth more to you alive than dead!" bullshit he was a coward. I agree that getting rid of the last remnants of colonial power was a good thing but to admire a murderer and COWARD is downright stupid and I hate everyone who wears his t-shirt and thinks he was awesome because they know nothing about him.

First off, he did not sneak away. At the time of his capture the guerrillas had two groups. The US trained Bolivian Special Forces had them effectively surrounded in a situation that "read like a scenario out of a U.S. army counter-insurgency manual" (Moises Guevara). Facing total annihilation both the groups attempted to escape. Most of Che's group was killed and Che was wounded. "Willy" helped him attempt to continue the escape along with "Aniceto". However due to his wound they were captured. The other group also taking casualties, managed to escape the encirclement only to be killed or forced into hiding. I wouldn't quite call that a "surrender". That "Don't shoot statement" although claimed by many people is not backed up by evidence - and if it was true he was right. He was worth more to them alive, but more so he was worth more to his men alive. If he was to be put on trial the possibility for another insurgency to be sparked was very real, and Bolivia would lose the respect of the world for sympathizing for the Left, having tried Regis Debray earlier. So Che had no choice, he was wounded and he had two guerrillas left to fight a professionally trained Bolivian anti-insurgency unit with an option of either hope or death.


because they know nothing about him.
The people who wear the t-shirts obviously aren't the only ones who know nothing about him...

[Crazythumbs]

He is a man to admire because he was not a coward. He not only thought, but he acted - which is partially why Jean-Paul Sartre called him the "most complete human being of our age". Whether you agree with what he fought for or not is beside the point.
There are many people who not only thought, but acted. So what makes him so special?

[Rapishorrid]

There are many people who not only thought, but acted. So what makes him so special?

Like I said "I don't know about the whole most revered thing and certainly don't agree with the t-shirts...". He isn't special. If you take political views out of the equation he is the same as any other American, European, Russian - any revolutionary. My point is he shouldn't be disrespected just because he was a communist and he shouldn't be called a coward, because he wasn't - he was fighting for what he believed in just like Washington or any other "good" guy.

Personally I hate communism just as much as the rest of you, but it's something some people believe in and if they are willing to fight for it than more power to them.

[JonasDahlin]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4241/coolaf7.jpg

What's this thread about again?

[NicholasJohnson]

Che Guevara...not pathological subject changing.

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

:cool:i do look like that:cool:

[JonasDahlin]

Che Guevara...not pathological subject changing.

Well seeing that communism is anti-religion and that Che Guevara was indeed a communist, I would have to say it's on topic :)

[NicholasJohnson]

Irrelevant. It wasn't on topic, you were using Christianity as a straw man.

Btw please use some actual sources for "killed more people than communism and Hitler put together" as that is blatantly untrue. Again you are getting absurd numbers off of the top of your head. Why is the absurd? Look at the list of greatest mass muderers, you will find that Communism and Nazism are at the top. The only examples of Christianity* killing mass numbers of people are:

Crusades
Inquisitions/witch burnings
Catholic vs Protestant wars
Persecution of the Jews/Atheists/Muslims/etc (before Hitler)

If I forget anything big (as in millions), correct me.

If you add up all the numbers of these instances with that of Nazism and Communism the numbers aren't even close.

I can even bring up this biased Wiki article:
Click Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll)

*note- Christianity refers to killing primarily motivated by religious reasons (i.e. Papal decree, Crusade-type things), not the secular actions of "Christian" nations such as Britain and America during the 19th Century.


Anyways, back to El Che and his trade empire:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1339/62441461568bigfq0.gif

[JonasDahlin]

Irrelevant. It wasn't on topic, you were using Christianity as a straw man.

And bashing communism is?




If I forget anything big (as in millions), correct me.

How about 60.000.000 natives?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

[enigma]

As i said to you yesterday after looking at that site, there was alot of things i had forgot what had been done in the name of christ but some of those figures i just cant believe.

lol Jackson that link, they have listed Krusk down twice each with a different death toll :p

[NicholasJohnson]

How about propoganda site?

I find it funny when I am on the site less than a minute and I find
Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of Amerikkka.

:rolleyes:



lol Jackson that link, they have listed Krusk down twice each with a different death toll

Which is why I said it was biased, the figures vary way too much on that site.


And bashing communism is?

Yes, Che was a communist, that is what he represented. You brought up Christianity as as straw man which has NOTHING to do with El Che. But then again, logic is offensive to most people nowadays.

[JonasDahlin]

Everything that is against your precious america seems to be propaganda :rolleyes:

Well I quess that the "When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." quote was taken from his ass.. but what do I know?

"Some man to admire. I hate communism it has killed more people than Hitler ever did and it doesn't work as a form of government"

Yeah i can definitely see the logic in that :rolleyes:

If you want to discuss the downsides of communism make thread about

[NicholasJohnson]

Everything that is against your precious america seems to be propaganda



The quote I found about "AmeriKKKa" was nothing but stereotypical paranoid filth. I make a note of it and now I am a mind-numbed robot. :rolleyes:

So I guess if I were to call (or link to a site that called) your "precious Sweden" a country a bunch of crazed evil monk-killing Vikings you wouldn't have a problem? Or how about calling Germany "HITLER LAND?" Or Russia "COMMIE LAND?" Or how about calling Great Britain "Great BNPritain?" Or how about calling Africa "cannibal land"? In the real world that kind of language is called bigotry and has no place. The webmaster of that site is a bigot. If someone made a similar site with "crimes of the Jews" or "crimes of the Muslims" or "crimes of the agnostics" I would say the same thing.

When did you start to have such an...interesting...view of Americans? Have you ever met one (if it is a tourist I apologize in advance)? I only ask because I have lived in Europe for three years and have gotten to know all sorts of people.





Well I quess that the "When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." quote was taken from his ass.. but what do I know?

1. I asked for crimes done with religion as the main purpose, not conquest of land/wealth.

2. Do you know that almost all of the "60 million natives (which is a very debatable number)" died of diseases which they had no immunity to?

Also note, I'm not some psycho who thinks the Inquisition was a good thing or that people were never killed by the Church, I am simply saying that Hitler and Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot killed more people.

Anyways we are already walking a thin line by talking about religion...let's not start calling each other godless descendants of apes and pigs or crazed fundies shall we?

[JonasDahlin]

So I guess if I were to call your "precious Sweden" a country a bunch of crazed evil monk-killing Vikings you wouldn't have a problem?

In fact I wouldn't because it's true, and there are still some people in sweden who see them selfs as Vikings and being superior to other people.

Well most of the americans who come here behave rather good.
But everyone I know who have been to america has absolutely nothing good to say about it. And why do americans get so offended when people critisies their country?


Yes many of the natives were killed by dieses like smallpox, I think it was 1/3 of the total death count. I will have to dissagree even though they were after land and wealth, they where doing it in gods name.
Btw everytime someone mentions god in a war makes it a religious war.

And another factor that hasn't been acounted for, killings that wern't recorded. 1-100 millions could have perished in the name of god for all what we know.

Well no we are completely off topic