It has been to long.

[Xeathos]

I have had this thought for the last few months and I have decided to get it out there... Have you ever noticed the increase of all theese massive horrible devstating storms? It may be cause my global warming and all that shit, but do you ever think that there is something that is naturally balancing the earth???

When the world wars were occuring, you didn't hear about freak storms that wipped out entire cities.. For example.. The Tsunami of 2004? Look how many people died there.. But when the world wars were occuring, mostly the only thing that was doing the killing were bullets and bombs....

Do you ever think that mabey there is something in this world that is keeping a balance between humans and animals? Or at least trying?? Think about that...

[2ltben]

I'm sure this did happen, but communication has vastly improved since then, especially in the South Pacific. Look at the first time Galveston was destroyed, or Krakatoa.

[enigma]

Its all a conspiracy by the Illuminati, the Masons and the Templars to use there main control machines on you thats why ;)




Do you ever think that mabey there is something in this world that is keeping a balance between humans and animals? Or at least trying?? Think about that...
Its called war, when theres too many humans we have a nice big fight to keep the population levels down.

[Katulobotomia]

The Tellus is one big living thing, so if we keep on living like this it will get fed up with us and fuck us up real bad. Unless we learn to live WITH the planet instead off-of-it.
We have been here only for a blink of an eye compared to other species.
So expect to hear more "un-natural" weather phenomenoms. :)

[enigma]

We have been exploiting this planet since the beginning of our time, it hasnt got rid of us yet ;)

muah ha hahahahah

[Xeathos]

Its all a conspiracy by the Illuminati, the Masons and the Templars to use there main control machines on you thats why ;)




Its called war, when theres too many humans we have a nice big fight to keep the population levels down.

I mean BESIDES war....

[enigma]

Ethnic clensing ...

[2ltben]

Earth has had an amazing number of mass extinctions, one of which almost wiped out all life on the planet. Its only a matter of time before the cosmos bitchslaps Mammalia and puts someone else in charge.

[-X-Sublime]

like the sensimilla beings just gaint seedless plants moveing around the earth at a incredibly slow rate and produceing so much oxygen that they exentally die out do to lack of carbon

[Lord Justin]

Do you ever think that mabey there is something in this world that is keeping a balance between humans and animals? Or at least trying?? Think about that...

Natural occurances cause these balances. So many people wouldn't die from storms if there weren't so many people to begin with. Less people = less people able to die. More people = more people that can die. Also disease will keep our levels down for a good while longer, and soon after we cure current diseases, others will spring up in their place. Wars are also good for denting populations.

So yes, there is something "trying" to keep a balance. Nature, and chance. All nature is is a balance, and the problem of overpopulation will eventually solve itself.

[2ltben]

50% of the ocean's biomass consists of single celled organisms that are sustained by photosynthesis. Scientists had no ideas these things existed, and as a result their biomass filters were made too large, allowing them in. It was an MIT biology professor that discovered this.

A gamete produces zygotes to make other gametes. This could be the purpose of the universe.

There's still a whole bunch of stuff we don't know. What are you doing to help?

[-X-Sublime]

50% of the ocean's biomass consists of single celled organisms that are sustained by photosynthesis. Scientists had no ideas these things existed, and as a result their biomass filters were made too large, allowing them in. It was an MIT biology professor that discovered this.

A gamete produces zygotes to make other gametes. This could be the purpose of the universe.

There's still a whole bunch of stuff we don't know. What are you doing to help?
currently i am studying how long a human can stand in the rain outside till he starts to sink and grow into the ground but my subject doesnt like being chained in myback yard so its kinda hard going sofar

[Jensen]

The world IS over populated! Nature is feeling the pressure and finding new ways too kill us. There is a reason why SARS and all those nasty diseases are occuring. Preventing nature is impossible, and nature does not want us here anymore.....

[Xeathos]

The world IS over populated! Nature is feeling the pressure and finding new ways too kill us. There is a reason why SARS and all those nasty diseases are occuring. Preventing nature is impossible, and nature does not want us here anymore.....

I wouldn't say nature doesn't want us hear anymore, but I would think that it wants us not to live off the planet, but with the planet. Every animal, tree even drop of rain humans want to use to their advantage. If we just tried to use what we already have (which is pretty much everything) then perhaps Earth would not be colapsing at such a high speed.

[Zip]

Here is the reason for those storms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Niño

[enigma]

SARS occured coz the Chinese let it loose from there labs :p

[Total_Overkill]

SARS occured coz the Chinese let it loose from there labs :p

o_O? i thought it was because poultry farmers stopped using condoms

Edit... hmm, maybe that was more of a birdflu joke then SARS (i cant even remember what SARS does any more)

[enigma]

It makes people get a case of the death... and not the good kind!

[Exteral]

we need thoose awfuls wars and storms and all god-forsaken one testicled dictator. dont get me wrong i dont mean that everybody should die but we must reduce our numbers, in one war or another, our planet could only carry a certain number of humans and we either have to start colonize other planets(or maybe take advantage of the other 70% of earths surface) or it will occur a awful war that hopefully will not result in a nuclear one. "peace out"

[Blame Canada]

came to think of this: http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speech-complexity.html

[Lt. Hanley]

That article was awesome, and so true.

[xtc-alec]

That article has changed my life :eek:

[Kaos]

That article was rubbish.

The first bit, where he's talking about Chernobyl; all he does is say "No, that source is incorrect, my unnamed source is correct". Convincing argument. Then he uses the classic technique of refuting climate change by assuring us that similar outlandish remarks have been made in the past. His first quote is from Lowell Ponte's infamous "The Cooling". The book is rubbish. In fact the preface of the book itself states "There are very few pages that, as a scientist, I could accept without questions of accuracy, of precision, or of balance". The difference between Ponte's theory and that of Global Warming is that every scientific journal is an agreement about the existence and detrimental causes and effects of climate change, as is the UN Scientific body and all but two countries (USA and Australia). Comparing one crackpot theory to this, just as Crichton has done is ridiculous. Essentially the same thing can be said for his Y2K example. We all know Y2K was an exercise in generating huge amounts of money by creating fear and paranoia. Crichton argues that global warming is a similar exercise. The difference being that Y2K was not a scientific concern but a commercial one. It didn't have 150 years of solid evidence supporting it.

Without skipping a beat Crichton moves onto the apparent 'de-carbonizing' of our energy sources, quoting a study done by the Rockefeller Institute. For those of you who don't know, J.D. Rockefeller was the founder of the Standard Oil Company so obviously no conflict of interest there. Crichton then shows us all he has absolutely no knowledge of chemistry by claiming that one day fossil fuels (Also known as hydroCARBONS) will burn without any carbon. Not much needs to be said about this...

Once again Crichton jumps from one topic to another, in this case magnetism. I'll admit he lost me a little bit here. From what I gather selling a couple of books about magnetisms supposed healing qualities shows how we all get scared into buying things and hence global warming doesn't exist?

I gave up that point after seeing a picture of Roosevelt and some deer. As much as like some of Crichton's novels this article was pure garbage.

[enigma]

Ok reading through this, someone explain to me the two maps at the top :S

Funny, his 56 deaths are like the guys who melted inside the bloody place not those killed by the big green cloud which one will note allot of world wide agencys, the UN, the media etc etc who cite sources etc stating those killed via the cloud released, exposure and not due to the direct explosion.

To quote him:

It seems difficult to make a mistake of that scale.


Ehrlich himself predicted that half of all species would become extinct by 2000. Didn’t happen.
Whoever that guy is, he seems half right, just look at how many we have drove to extintion or have placed on an endangered spesis list.

I only got to the global warming and cooling bit there, i can actually agree with the guy ... global warming is alload of sweaty bollacks. But anyhoo the guy seems to be rambling and not proving anything of real intrest to be honest.

[masasa]

Global Warming caused by man is bullshit. Co2 that mankind produces is a very tiny percent of what environment produces. And Co2 isn't even causing the global warming, its the other way a round. Rise of the temperature rises the amount of Co2. Google it.

Reason why there are so many scientists that speak of man causing global warming is because their research gets funded much more easily if they support this view. This is because media that gets big audience when talking about the horrors of global warming.

Environment is always changing. We shouldn't talk about how to prevent it, but how to adjust to it.

Also important thing to notice is how all this mass hysteria about global warming is keeping Africa poor(by preventing it from producing energy and thus creating industry) and make people come up with things like biofuel(making it pollutes more than using fossile fuels and it makes the food cost more since food is now also used to make biofuels and they also have to cut down forests for it).

[Katulobotomia]

Global Warming caused by man is bullshit. Co2 that mankind produces is a very tiny percent of what environment produces. And Co2 isn't even causing the global warming, its the other way a round. Rise of the temperature rises the amount of Co2. Google it.

Reason why there are so many scientists that speak of man causing global warming is because their research gets funded much more easily if they support this view. This is because media that gets big audience when talking about the horrors of global warming.

Environment is always changing. We shouldn't talk about how to prevent it, but how to adjust to it.

Also important thing to notice is how all this mass hysteria about global warming is keeping Africa poor(by preventing it from producing energy and thus creating industry) and make people come up with things like biofuel(making it pollutes more than using fossile fuels and it makes the food cost more since food is now also used to make biofuels and they also have to cut down forests for it).

*clears throat* Do I sense some conspiracy theory there? If man is not part of global warming, why temperatures in towns are higher than in country. Why has the CO2 level been rising almost exponentially ever since the industrial revolution where western world started massproducing factories that pump huge amount of CO2 in daily basis. But the fact is that this ball is warming up, making weird weather patterns and changing the climate, it is very evident in Finland also. But CO2 does not act as the biggest global warmer...its simple as water. Clouds can trap more energy than any gas can, since water itself is the best "storer" of heat from all known matter.

And I know I sound stubid when I try to speak good :P

PS: Dont trust ze intahnet. ; )

[masasa]

*clears throat* Do I sense some conspiracy theory there? If man is not part of global warming, why temperatures in towns are higher than in country. Why has the CO2 level been rising almost exponentially ever since the industrial revolution where western world started massproducing factories that pump huge amount of CO2 in daily basis. But the fact is that this ball is warming up, making weird weather patterns and changing the climate, it is very evident in Finland also. But CO2 does not act as the biggest global warmer...its simple as water. Clouds can trap more energy than any gas can, since water itself is the best "storer" of heat from all known matter.

And I know I sound stubid when I try to speak good :P

PS: Dont trust ze intahnet. ; )

Man can't stop the changing climate, that is a fact. Look at the sky, that bright thing glowing there is what dictates what happens to the climate. We must adjust and not make stupid decisions that hurt economics and people when desperately trying to stop the climate change.

[enigma]

What ever happened to that Ice Age?


why temperatures in towns are higher than in country.
Doesnt that just boil down to cramped living conditions etc then the wide open spaces of the country...

[xtc-alec]

Well i used to live in the country...and now i live in the city.



I cant tell a difference. What where they basing that on anyway?

[Kaos]

Well i used to live in the country...and now i live in the city.



I cant tell a difference. What where they basing that on anyway?

Over a hundred years of historical and scientific data.

Seriously you guys can bash global warming all you like but the fact is just about everyone else has accepted. Especially world leaders. The EU has emissions targets and every country has signed up to Kyoto bar Australia and the US. Every climate scientist and every country except for two against masasa and other armchair skeptics.

[SuperSoldier]

People please, look at the charts, peer-reviewed papers, and go outside (doesn't work as well in a cold place like Finland or Canada) and feel the heat. I live in coastal NC which normally has a mild temperature in the fall and winter and it is currently around 80-90 degrees everyday, even on a cloudy day. I do agree that some is natural but the majority is man-made. Do you think that billions of tons of CO2 disappears when it goes into the atmosphere? Hell, around 10 years ago it actually snowed here but hasn't since then. The mountains are relying more on artificial snow for skiing because it rarely snows there. I'm no expert but damn people, open your eyes. There's a reason that nearly every scientist supports this view. It's because it's true. Listen to Kaos, because he has a lot more info then I do. When I used to live further up north in NC it used to snow every year when I was a kid. Now, it doesn't snow there anymore. Now some places the effect is more drastic, such as the Greenland. Do you think those before and after pictures of glaciers are fake? Please, don't just put it off as because some of the disbelievers have a louder voice than the believers. Open your eyes. There is no way we can stop it, but we can at least lessen the impact. Compare this to the big deal about smoking causing cancer thing a while back. Some "scientists" were funded by the tobacco companies and now some "scientists" are funded by the oil companies. Another thing is I do not believe there will ever be a point of no return (although feel free to prove me wrong) where the Earth will forever be doomed. I mean if the believers of global warming are wrong, no big deal. It lessened the dependence on oil and stopped some pollution but if the deniers are wrong, we're screwed (kind of like the Pascal's Wager of Global Warming but without the thousands of other religions and problems with Pascal's Wager). And to the person who says we produce only a tiny amount, it is true that we only put out around 4% but that contributes to the already natural warming and causes the Earth to produce much more CO2 then it takes in. You should read this article:

http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11638

It explains how 4% is like a-straw-breaking-the-camel's-back situation. Now unless you can prove me wrong, don't say anything else :)

[enigma]

So what about back in the day when they had all had accept global cooling was about to happen and we were all going to freeze are knackers off?

3 decades down the line and there now telling us the place is heating up and were all going to melt.

As for every scientist, there appears to be quite a large number who dont believe in it, who have put forward allot of reasons why the planet may be heating up or why its even a load of crap.

As well, there seems to be allot of acusations that the guys who made the original studies didnt base them off anything, ignored all pervious research, ommitted the global cooling issue as they were told to come up with results which matched what whoever it was who comissioned it wanted and a shit load of cash was placed on the table.
The follow up being that further research uses theres as a basis and has the same bais over the money issue.


everyone else has accepted. Especially world leaders.
hmmm wonder why ... maybe to make them look good and win the next election? Why else do politcitions usally pubically suck up to things?

If the planet has been heating up since just before the Ice Age ended, hence why were not all covered in ice right now, coastlines have errored (the white cliffs are white because they are erroding) and towns and cities (British coastline has receeded and several Roman towns etc have been found under the waves iirc) taken by the sea, rivers drying up and rerouting themselves (the Nile) etc .... and that was all before the industrial revolution how is then the planet warming up is our fault and something we can stop?

Why not launch some global shade or something, there problem solved!

[Kaos]

Your first statement is incorrect. There was never a time we were told to start panicking and running in fear because of apparent "Global Cooling". As I wrote in an earlier post that was the theory of a small number of people with dubious scientific credentials and evidence.

On the other hand Global Warming is supported by the the UN Scientific body as well as climate scientists.

Global warming isn't a recent thing, it's been talking about and written about for decades. It's only recently when the data shows that it's urgent we need to do deal with it that it's captured the public spotlight. So scientists are convinced, they inturn convince the people and as Enigma correctly stated the politicians "sucked up" to the public. There's nothing wrong with political leaders going with the vast majority of public and scientific opinion.

[Katulobotomia]

So what about back in the day when they had all had accept global cooling was about to happen and we were all going to freeze are knackers off?

3 decades down the line and there now telling us the place is heating up and were all going to melt.



Mainly because the climate is changing? There was a so called mini ice-age at some point in history where the climate changed to colder. It was before the industrial revolution and after year 0. But it only lasted like a few decades. In Finland we are breaking heat records almost EVERY year, the summer comes sooner than ever and the climate here is making some pretty weird behaviours. Like few months back we had the biggest strom EVER recorded in Finlands history, with over 2000 lighting strikes per minute. That is considered as a tropical strorm, in Finland? Last winter, I was in army, it was a typical sunny day. The next morning I woke up at the barracks it was snowing and it snowed so hard that in the evening we had snow piles over 2m high. Then it all melted again.

Saying that we cant effect the climate is pretty weird, heard of acid-rains? Extinction? Man has killed more animals to extinct than any other animal has. Man has used so much wood that we have turned entire rainforests into wasteland. Entire islands have been turned into sandpits. Man has fished the oceans so much the fishes are dying in global scale. Rivers dammed, lakes poisoned, lakes dried up and I am not going into talking about the common polluting we do to the atmosphere or to ocean.

[Kaos]

Another point is that these climate shifts from ice-age to heating and back again - called cycles, occur over millions of years. We know this from the ice-records.

Right now we're seeing a shift over a timespan of less than 200 years.

[enigma]

never a time we were told to start panicking and running in fear because of apparent "Global Cooling". As I wrote in an earlier post that was the theory of a small number of people with dubious scientific credentials and evidence.

If it was such a small passing thought how come it appears when we look around that it was something a little bit more then a passing though by people with dubious credentials?

It appears that quite a large number of people believed it (although far fewer in number then now with this global warming) and that the same media panic mongering happened, the story being run in papers in Time magazine etc

Looking around it appears that some governments were warned to do something by scientists and that in the last few years the politicians have picked up on this and used it several times to prove how the lab coats got it wrong (in America iirc).

Articles like this (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml), are a little bit interesting eh?

There appears to be scientists out there too which discredit the work done by people stating there is global warming epidemic and then people discrediting them in return.


With so much controversy and people not being able to get on the same playing field with each other, why should we believe one out of a possible bunch of conclusions they are all coming to?

The media is the ones spurring this along and the politicians are then forced to pick it up to play to their employer - the masses.
If the media killed the subject, the politicians wouldn’t have something to harp on about and we would probably get less bias and possible corrupted reports from the scientists.

The media are the new doomsayers!


Saying that we cant effect the climate is pretty weird
You mis-quoting me, am simply showing that the Earths climate is pretty weird anyway. Things which are being blamed on global warming are down to nature, coastlines receding etc as mentioned – the white cliffs and sunken roman towns etc

I haven’t said we haven’t had an impact on our environment but what I am saying is I do not believe the scientists working for the governments and these world organisations.

Should we cut back on polluting toxins being released into the air? Yes! Should we attempt to find a clean and efficient replacement to fossil fuels? Yes

But until I personally see something which is not so soaked in controversy and tonnes of other scientists dismissing it, I don’t think am going to start believing it.

In conclusion, we shouldn’t trust the man and the man is telling us were doomed.

[SuperSoldier]

The whole global cooling thing was to do so much sulfur in the atmosphere pumped by man and then when the Clean Air Act came we began to lessen our use of sulphurs, the effects of global warming began to show quickly in a short time. Now it is slowly rising. Why can't we just play it safe for a few years and who knows, we might find an effective biofuel.

[Bunglo]

Personally, I think "global warming" as democrats and "scientist" are putting it is complete BS. And as far as "feel the heat", it's colder where I live than it usually is this time of the year. I seriously doubt man can control the climate of the earth ;)

[Kaos]

Personally, I think "global warming" as democrats and "scientist" are putting it is complete BS. And as far as "feel the heat", it's colder where I live than it usually is this time of the year. I seriously doubt man can control the climate of the earth ;)

Good for you, mate. Sit back, watch some sport on your plasma TV, turn the air conditioner up and we'll deal with the problem.

[Bunglo]

Good for you, mate. Sit back, watch some sport on your plasma TV, turn the air conditioner up and we'll deal with the problem.

Ummm, it never gets hot enough to turn the air conditioner on where I live;) And I hate sports, and my tv's a 65 inch wide screen HD television, not a plasma:D And by dealing with the problem do mean contributing to "solutions" like this (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22562480-662,00.html)?

[Kaos]

Why not? It might seem far-fetched but we obviously need creative ideas to deal with one of the biggest problems humanity has every faced.

If you read Dr. Diesendorf's report he doesn't just mention cutting down on beef but also:

CUTTING gas and coal production.

HALTING land clearing and deforestation.

SHIFTING to renewable energy such as wind power and bioelectricity from crop residues.

You think we shouldn't be doing that?

[Bunglo]

Why not? It might seem far-fetched but we obviously need creative ideas to deal with one of the biggest problems humanity has every faced.

If you read Dr. Diesendorf's report he doesn't just mention cutting down on beef but also:

CUTTING gas and coal production.

HALTING land clearing and deforestation.

SHIFTING to renewable energy such as wind power and bioelectricity from crop residues.

You think we shouldn't be doing that?

Nope, never said we should or shouldn't be doing anything. I'm all for saving trees and making the air cleaner but do you really expect me to believe some one when they're telling me to slaughter kangaroo's and kill all of the cows because their farts are causing global warming? If I may take some words from my good friend Charlie Brown "good grief":rolleyes:

[Kaos]

Here's a brief history of Australia:

Kangaroo's arrive.

Millions of years later white people arrive and bring cows.

Yes, quite brief. The kangaroo's are adapted to this country in a variety of ways. Firstly, they can eat native flora so it isn't necessary to chop down trees to create grazing areas as it is with cows. Secondly, they're paws are such that when they jump around they don't damage the ground due to equal distribution of weight. The problem with cows is that their hooves are designed for Ye Olde England and not for the dry Aussie landscape. What we then get is uneven, potholed soil which isn't good for anything. Thirdly, cows, as stated in the article, produce lot's of methane which is not really good for the environment. Kangaroos produce a lot less waste.

The producers of this report are suggesting instead of putting our focus on cows (Which we have been for the last few hundred years) we refocus on native flora and fauna which is adapted for our landscape and less likely to impact on the environment. A quarter of the planet's greenhouse gasses come from agriculture so I guess that's a good place to start.

Kangaroo's are also healthy, low in fat and, most importantly, tasty.

[enigma]

hypocrite :p

[masasa]

I think everybody can agree that the climate is changing, it has before. Biggest issue here is how to react. Reducing pollution and deforesting and energy use are all very good goals. Not because it would stop the climate change, but because it would be good for the environment and help to preserve the Earth for future generations. But instead of fixing problems this is happening:

So far the biggest achievement of the "man is causing Global Warming"-people is to prevent Africa rising from the poverty and introducing biofuels that destroy both environment and economy.

Western countries only allow the use of solar power in Africa and use the global warming as an excuse. Solar power is both super expensive and super ineffective. Top of the line solar power technology isn't effective in western countries so how can you assume it would work in poor Africa? How can you expect Africa to develop industry while denying it from using energy?

Then the biofuels. Because of climate change(lack of seasons and different weather coditions) crops don't grow as good as they used to---> Not enough food to satisfy the demand-->price of wheat has gone up. Now because of the hysteria about global warming billions and billions are invested to biofuels. Now there is even less food available because huge amount of it goes to biofuel factories that also need massive amount of fossile fuels to operate. Brazil uses biofuels exclusively. They are deforesting large areas of Amazon rainforests not for the wood but to use the land to produce more sugar cane, which they use to make biofuel.

So I don't care if you think man is the cause of global warming or not, I just don't want you to support these things and think they are saving you.

[2ltben]

Just about of curiosity, has a population center of mass been determined? The populations of almost every major city in the world is known, of which every country has at least one. From this, population densities are easily calculated since all cities have at least an approximate surface area. From there, one could treat cities as point particles of known mass and density on an xy plane using latitude and longitude coordinates. Maybe a project for my spare time.

The thing about overpopulation is that population growth is modelled by the logistic function, which means solving for Carrying Capacity is nearly impossible because its so conditional. One would have to analyze the living space, energy capabilities, water and sanitation capabilities, medical capabilities, and agricultural capabilities of the entire world, and any time any sort of progress is made to increase efficiency, a new calculation would need to be made. Its not entirely dissimilar to how the Consumer Product Index is managed, which has an amazing number of flaws, both potential and obvious.

[sooch90]

When the world wars were occuring, you didn't hear about freak storms that wipped out entire cities.. For example.. The Tsunami of 2004? that...

The Tsunami of 2004 was caused by shifting plates and had nothing to do with global warming.

[[FFTF]Eurofighter]

I have no problem with global warming i'd like to have it a couple degrees warmer here xD. and the sea might rise 1 or 2 metres but damn i dont care i live under sea level already we'll just build some higher dikes. It might sound harsh but guys the major companies go for the cheapest solution and thats oil. Hating/boycotting the company almost never works. When a company closes his factories in my country and open them in poland or someth everybody hates them but that wont stop them. It will stop when the oil runs out and things like solar wind water and whatever are cheaper solutions.
2nd thing the greenhouse effect has never been proved to be the cause for global warming like CFCs have been proved to be the cause for destroying the ozon layer. If theres still something humans now not much about its the atmosphere. And hell if it gets warmer! :p if you look back in histroy there have been tropical rain forests growing on where my country is and there were thick layers of ice once. And still species survived and lived on those lands. Humans want to be in control of the earth and they have to realise they 're still not. Land, earth, biodiversity you cannot keep them as the are now forever! And dont get me wrong im not pro-oil but the idealism some peope have is ungrounded. Like people want to feed all the people in the world and want to have no poverty for 6billion people. Its idealistic and i would want it too but its unrealistic. Theres not enough food/resources for that much people. You know what happens if a animal like a antilope overpopulates like that? Many die of starvation and you'll have survival of the fittest. anyway im wandering off. The greenhouse effect is not proven but we'll just have to find an alternative if the oil runs out. One thing i see a future in is core fusion it could provide a lot of power. Theyre building a testpower station in france as we speek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

[SuperSoldier]

The Tsunami of 2004 was caused by shifting plates and had nothing to do with global warming.
He never mentioned global warming.

[sooch90]

Oh shoot, my mistake. I skimmed over his post and immediately drew a connection between global warming and tsunami. sorry!

[2ltben]

Eurofighter;84226']I have no problem with global warming i'd like to have it a couple degrees warmer here xD. and the sea might rise 1 or 2 metres but damn i dont care i live under sea level already we'll just build some higher dikes. It might sound harsh but guys the major companies go for the cheapest solution and thats oil. Hating/boycotting the company almost never works. When a company closes his factories in my country and open them in poland or someth everybody hates them but that wont stop them. It will stop when the oil runs out and things like solar wind water and whatever are cheaper solutions.
2nd thing the greenhouse effect has never been proved to be the cause for global warming like CFCs have been proved to be the cause for destroying the ozon layer. If theres still something humans now not much about its the atmosphere. And hell if it gets warmer! :p if you look back in histroy there have been tropical rain forests growing on where my country is and there were thick layers of ice once. And still species survived and lived on those lands. Humans want to be in control of the earth and they have to realise they 're still not. Land, earth, biodiversity you cannot keep them as the are now forever! And dont get me wrong im not pro-oil but the idealism some peope have is ungrounded. Like people want to feed all the people in the world and want to have no poverty for 6billion people. Its idealistic and i would want it too but its unrealistic. Theres not enough food/resources for that much people. You know what happens if a animal like a antilope overpopulates like that? Many die of starvation and you'll have survival of the fittest. anyway im wandering off. The greenhouse effect is not proven but we'll just have to find an alternative if the oil runs out. One thing i see a future in is core fusion it could provide a lot of power. Theyre building a testpower station in france as we speek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
I believe you mean COLD fusion. And forget about building a power plant running on it, cold fusion has never been experimentally proven in any form and on any scale. Once it has been, give it a couple of decades before power plants become anything near what could be called "safe."

And once fusion goes into practice, we're still going to have ecological problems when companies start ripping up mountains and the ocean floor for lithium.

Progress is a treadmill. Making advances to solve problems will only create new problems, but stepping off just isn't an option. By leaving Earth, you'd just be stepping onto a series of different treadmills. The trick is to switch treadmills right before the one you're on burns out.

[enigma]

Today on the news, masive sceintific dicovery ..... fat people cause global warming!
Yes thats right the news today annouced more men in white coats have been doing more usless research and have came up with obesity causes global warming.


A few months ago they tried to tie the floods we had across the UK earlier this year on it too.
Failing to omit the fact that rivers silt up raising there levels, couple that with building on flood plains and inadequate flood barriers = peoples home get drenched.

Surely if the earth was warming up it would have all evaporated ? :p


When the poles all melt and were all flooded i know the people in Denmark iirc will be happy ... since there lakes, rivers have been dropping yes thats right the water level there is dropping ... although thats due to the planet rising up due to recovery from the ice age.

Hmmm whats that ... the planet is still recovering from the ice age? hmmmm ;)

[Lt. Hanley]

tbh I'm all for global warming. It means the girls that live in colder climes can wear bikinis and other sexy clothes longer.

[2ltben]

Today on the news, masive sceintific dicovery ..... fat people cause global warming!
Yes thats right the news today annouced more men in white coats have been doing more usless research and have came up with obesity causes global warming.


A few months ago they tried to tie the floods we had across the UK earlier this year on it too.
Failing to omit the fact that rivers silt up raising there levels, couple that with building on flood plains and inadequate flood barriers = peoples home get drenched.

Surely if the earth was warming up it would have all evaporated ? :p
Warming = Rise in temperature = Delta Climate = Holy shit floods, tornadoes, massive drought. Water doesn't just disappear, it all goes somewhere.

Its actually very closely related to the Biblical flood of Genesis, seeing as that was most likely an account of the Priora Oscillation, which itself was caused by climate change. There were floods by the rivers and coastlines, but in the interior of Mesopotamia there was pretty severe drought.

[scottdog]

tbh I'm all for global warming. It means the girls that live in colder climes can wear bikinis and other sexy clothes longer.

But they would also be up to the neck in water because of rising sea levels.

Its a hard one, i know.

[Xeathos]

But they would also be up to the neck in water because of rising sea levels.

Its a hard one, i know.

Simple solution.. Build a platform...
or a boat..

But anyways, I don't know if it's really "global warming " as they say...

Werent they just saying that we were going 2 freeze 2 death?

[2ltben]

Simple solution.. Build a platform...
or a boat..

But anyways, I don't know if it's really "global warming " as they say...

Werent they just saying that we were going 2 freeze 2 death?
...w...t...f...

[Kaos]

Simple solution.. Build a platform...
or a boat..

But anyways, I don't know if it's really "global warming " as they say...

Werent they just saying that we were going 2 freeze 2 death?

No, they weren't saying that. Read some of the posts in this thread again for more detail.

[2ltben]

Still, I don't think you know what Global Warming implies, Xeathos. Its not about the world increasing in temperature, its about the climate change resulting from an increase in temperature. Things like ocean currents being altered so radically that they effectively cease to function from our reckoning of time, things like drought in one area and massive flooding in an area that could be only a few hundred miles away.

Essentially the Gilgamesh/Genesis flooding all over again, only much, much worse. Civilization consists of more than a series of city states and pastoral shepherds these days. One can only hope that Bryan's Cross of Gold assertion holds true, that as long as the agriculture industry survives, urbanization and industrialization can rebuild itself.

[masasan]

Few facts:

- Greenhouse gases are 95% of water vapour and 0.057% of Co2(which includes man made CO2).

- Sun is the dominating factor on what happens to the temperatures on Earth.

- C02 levels rise when temperature rises. CO2 levels fall when temperature falls. This is happens in hundred of years delay. It is because of this:

When temperature rises the oceans start to relase more CO2, but it takes time for oceans to warm up and thats why there is a delay. When temperatures falls the oceans tie up CO2 and release only little of it. But again it takes time for oceans to cool down and that is the reason there is a delay.

So in other words: CO2 can't cause global warming because the temperatures must rise first, and after that CO2 levels.

[2ltben]

This new wave of environmentalism has little, if anything, to do with global warming. Its a cultural backlack against unchecked business and industry with a focus on nature, science, conservationism, and, probably most importantly, energy independence. Global Warming only serves to perpetuate it, the argument as to whether or not it exists is largely irrelevant.

[Bunglo]

While I think that being energy independent and helping the environment out is great (and something that needs to be done.) I really think that scaring people into switching to alternatives is f*cked up.

[Lord Justin]

This new wave of environmentalism has little, if anything, to do with global warming. Its a cultural backlack against unchecked business and industry with a focus on nature, science, conservationism, and, probably most importantly, energy independence. Global Warming only serves to perpetuate it, the argument as to whether or not it exists is largely irrelevant.

But the argument as to what causes it is where the action is now. People like Al Gore show you these pretty graphs and these unsettling photos of diminished glaciers and most people "know" he's absolutely right and that by driving hybrids and turning off the lights when they leave the room, they will be saving the planet.

What no one knows is exactly how much of an effect humanity really has on the global climate. We only know very little about the long-timescale processes of Earth's climate; our efforts could or could not have any significant effect on global warming. Though I suppose people like Al Gore know this, and know that we might as well at least try, so they make this big deal about it knowing that the mass populus will swallow whatever they're told and don't really need to know the uncertainty of it, since that would only cause widespread indifference.

[Bunglo]

Though I suppose people like Al Gore know this, and know that we might as well at least try, so they make this big deal about it knowing that the mass populus will swallow whatever they're told and don't really need to know the uncertainty of it, since that would only cause widespread indifference.

Yah, if Al Gore really believes all of this garbage he is spewing out, he might start by trying to do the things he "suggests" every one else do. The fact that he uses like 20 times more energy at his mansion than the average American household really says to me that this is all political/money driven. How the man won a Nobel Piece price is beyond me:confused:

[2ltben]

Yah, if Al Gore really believes all of this garbage he is spewing out, he might start by trying to do the things he "suggests" every one else do. The fact that he uses like 20 times more energy at his mansion than the average American household really says to me that this is all political/money driven. How the man won a Nobel Piece price is beyond me:confused:
Not really, at least people heed his words. How Yasser Arafat won a Nobel Peace Prize for something that didn't even happen, now that surprised me.

[Bunglo]

Why the heck would any one listen to a hypocrite, doesn't really make since to me...

[Martin Walther]

Guys.. you're all wrong!.. it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster who keeps everything in balance... and global warming is caused by the decreasing number of pirates since the 18th century.