Second Cold War: Reality or a Myth?

[DavidUpton]

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22980698-954,00.html

There's little doubt that some of the actions carried out by Russia and Putin are hardly passive and are indeed quite brave and provoking, but are we really on the verge of a new Cold War with Russia? Is this article hard proof of another era of paranoia, or is the author simply going over the top?

I would be interested to see people's views on this matter.

Edit: Especially interested in what Comrade Corporate Ignorance might have to say.

[scottdog]

Looks like the West is doing its bit as well, with the missile shield defence. But I doubt it will go anywhere close to the cold war, even if it does, I'm pritty safe down under.

[Byron]

Yes, spying from BOTH Russia and China have or are about to reach the Cold War status - meaning the level Russia was spying on us during the Cold War, they are currently doing

[Corporate Ignorance]

Being a citizen of a Third World Country I dare to give one advice- NEVER trust official mass media when they talk about big politics.

Well, of course, it's a myth.
The answer to Dave question is STRICTLY "NO", because Russia is a Third World country. With all typical features of that good term. Period.



Let us try to objectivley analyze the situation. Let us analyze the facts and figures and statisitcs.Just try to compare the current Russian Federation with the Soviet Union.And then try to answer the simple question- is it possibe for modern Russia to compete with the most powerful empire in the world?

I won't bother you with numbers and figures, you can look them by yourselvs, but I can tell you, and I you can belive me- it's useless to compare Russian Federation with Pax Americana.


Just compare military budgets of U.S. and Russian Federation. The diffrence is overwhelming(U.S. military budget alone is bigger(!) then the whole budget(!) of Russian Federation)...So, think for yourself about credebility of that Cold War II hype.

Russia is no longer a threat to U.S. Becuase, no matter how hard Putin's administration tries to play on imperial ambitions of ordinary Russians, it's all a one big fake.

And morover, it's so obvious, becaues evidence lies on the surface. You don't have to be a conspiralogist to proive it with facts.:)

We are told by our offical media channels that we are strong and can answer back with deadly force, but the most funny thing is that all that rhetoric about Cold war II is serving one single purpose- to divert people from inner problems, from inner injustice and crimes of the current regime.
Wich, belive me, are many.

If you want to know the truth, look at the economic pretext. Because economic pretext in modern times determines almost everything in politics.

Let us face objective truth- ever since 1991, Russia is exploited by the West- cheap resources, opressed majority of the general population , corrupt elite, connected with transnational coprorate big business- the standard, predictable scenario, wich was so often used in Latin America, Africa and Asia.
What the Free Market undermines is not national sovereignty, but democracy. As the disparity between the rich and poor grows, the hidden fist has its work cut out for it. Multinational corporations on the prowl for "sweetheart deals" that yield enormous profits cannot push through those deals and administer those projects in developing countries without the active connivance of State machinery - the police, the courts, sometimes even the army.

Today Corporate Globalization needs an international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian governments in poorer countries to push through unpopular reforms and quell the mutinies. It needs nuclear bombs, standing armies, sterner immigration laws, and watchful coastal patrols to make sure that it's only money, goods, patents, and services that are beiIt needs a press that pretends to be free. It needs courts that pretend to dispense justice.

That's why the "strong", almost "authoretarian" Putin's regime is praised among many Western leading journals. Because, when state is brutal, it's more convinient to sell resources.

In a nutshell, Putin's regime is ideal for "Western Investrors"(Let us call them that), because Russian big business/elite is a faithful ally of the West. They sell resources, because they own them after they stole them.

Putin in his speeches is simply playing on imperial ambitions of depressed, cheated, broken people.

UNESCO estimates that about a half a million deaths a year in Russia since 1989 are the direct result of the reforms, caused by the collapse of health services, the increase in disease, the increase in malnutrition and so on. Killing half a million people a year -- that's a fairly substantial achievement for reformers. But who cares? We sell resources.

Eh...Anyway.

Don't be afriad of modern Russian state. It's like Saudi Arabia.

Everything that is told on T.V. regarding Cold war II reborn is a lie. And every lie has an agenda.

[Oddvin]

The Cold War II scheme is as said a diversion from inner problems. In Norway, when trouble of a minister or someone important comes up, it is ignored by the media. They will try to focus their attention on some foreign threat. (but nothing that can be taken as discrimination, you must know.)

[Corporate Ignorance]

Exactly, Oddvin.
The same old political scheme.

[DavidUpton]

Fair points, Corporate.

Although it is still unerving that our (British) airspace has been breached on a number of occasions by Russian bombers.

[2ltben]

Since when has Russia not been like that? Aleksandr the Great, I should think. This is just Russia bouncing back from the quite insane level of crime and corruption of the 90s (which is the leading reason why Russian gangland films put American and British ones to shame). That crime was caused in part by such a lack of a strong leadership.

Just as long as we have people to keep Russia in check, I'm content. Just as we must have others to keep ourselves in check.

[Corporate Ignorance]

Since when has Russia not been like that?
Just as long as we have people to keep Russia in check, I'm content. Just as we must have others to keep ourselves in check.

Well, Russia WAS not like that, when it was a Soviet Union. I mean, we were the Second World. Second evil empire in one of the strangest(and saddest) periods of human history.
Now, if we analzye numerous facts, Russia is sattelite- general population is thrown in unimaginable misery, but corrputed elite has been "fed" by the West.

Hmm, Ben, judging from your numerous posts, I still can't figure out your political stance.:))
And whom do you mean by "people to keep Russia in check?"

2Dave
Well, we still have 1400000 army.:)
And lots of nukes.)))

But simply we don't have economic capacity to renew the arms race, we don't have a comparable military budget, and what is most important and decisive is that noone here in Russia is intrested in it. Because, I repeat, guys in Kremlin, no matter how provoking and cheeky are their official statements, are most devoted allies of Euro Union and U.S.

[2ltben]

Keeping it in check by having people of influence stepping in and say, "What the hell is going on here?" No, I don't mean that camera whore Kasparov, I mean people like Aleksandr Valtyerovich Litvinenko and Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya.

In the end, I believe that Putin believes what he believes out of a geniune concern for Russia. He's not an evil man, I just disagree with his methods of bringing about stability. And although the costs are, in my opinion, too severe, Russia's doing quite well for itself. Well, at least the luxury sedan-driving, faux-Tudor mansion Moskva oligarchs are. However, this is the mere opinion of an outsider, though one who places great stock in Russia. I may harbor a severe resentment towards Yekaterina Alekseyevna, but Russia is just far too great a land to overlook or disregard.

[Corporate Ignorance]

Big Respect to you, Ben.:) You again broke traditional cliche(no offense meant) that America, even intellectual part of it, is very introverted and self-absorbed society. You even got the second names(father's name, if be more precise) right.:)
Honestly, I'm surpised))) But in a good way. For an "outsider", your knowledge of political/public Russian figures is impressive.

Indeed, Russia is a great land, but with very tragic history.
I should clarify my own words- Russia is constantly thrown into Third World by our own ignorance, historical objective/subjective circumstances, hatred of other goverments etc... But Russia always had an enourmous potential- huge resources, educated intellectual and professional elite, great cultural traditions etc...But still we wallow in sorrow, misery and injustice. For so long...

And it seems to me(again, judging from your previous posts in other topics) that you are of Polish origin?(If I understood you correctly- about our old cynical Tsaritsa Ekaterina II? Eh, a big shame with Poland.. Empires always are devouring...)

Well, Putin...Sometimes, I think it's funny how tempting is to think that actual PERSONS mean anything at all in political life, at least in politics of very corrpupted states.

I have to disagree that Putin "wishes" Russia good... Well, Putin is just a person, maybe with certain charisma, who represents a certain intrest of certain power gang. He is just a top of an iceberg, so to speak. He may wish something, or he may not, but the system of terrible social injustice that was built during Yeltisn's reign remained untouched and grows only stronger. During his reign quite terrible things have happend- the biggest problem, as I can see it, is the illusion of "stability" that is praised so much in the west. But as the matter of fact, Russia is very poor. I mean, Russian people are poor, wages are intolerably low, and only Moskva oligarchs(and all other big cities) are prosperous while there are parts where people(not bums, but honest workers, teachers, doctors) don't have electicity, hot water or any other necceties for years(!). Well, we start to resemble Latin America in that aspect. Self-abosrbed huge capitals(Moscow&St.Petersburgh) and the rest of bleak, over-looked huge lands, where people struggle in overwhelming circumstances, bathing in alchoholism and crime.

As I said, current Russian economic "stability" is stability of a bubble- because all our money come from selling resources. Prices go down- Russia goes with them. We produce nothing. Our production rates even now have not reached the production rates of 1991- so severe and deep was collapse of economy during 90s. And Putin's administration is not trying to change that, despite what is being told on T.V. Well, it's just my opinion, based on research of actual statistics, personal expirience and accounts of diffrent people. Allmost everything is subjective in this world.:)

[Oddvin]

Since i am only 17, i was raised during Yeltsins rule. However from what i have been learned to believe during childhood and school, is that Yeltsin was a "economic genius" or something like that. They tried to tell us that Yeltsin made a great deal for Russia, and the economy. Obviously it is more complex than that, and because media is owned by certain people, who push their agenda, I wonder: How was Yeltsin really like to have as President or whatever it is called.