"I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes"

[NicholasJohnson]

Here we go again:

Naval Incident in Persian Gulf (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html)


When the U.S. ships heard that radio transmission, they manned their gun positions and officers were "in the process" of giving the order to fire

:rifle:

[DavidUpton]

Why does this not surprise me?

[2ltben]

But they didn't, did they? I'd hate to be the President today, knowing that he has absolutely no control over the Revolutionary Guard and can't stop this from happening again.

[xplosiv]

OT - The thread title lead me to believe that this was about something else... Apologies! :mickey:

[aag567]

The Iranians have a strange sense of humor.

[Oddvin]

It was not the first of April....id take it seriously ^^

[lazlazlaz1]

Iran's foreign ministry spokesman downplayed the incident, calling it "ordinary," IRNA reported. Mohammad Ali Hosseini said that similar incidents had occurred in the past between Iranian and American ships, and the issues were resolved as soon as the ships recognized each other, IRNA reported.

ordinary...If almost declaring war frequently is ordinary then yeah, I guess it is.

[2ltben]

ordinary...If almost declaring war frequently is ordinary then yeah, I guess it is.
Fact: The US has a track record of provoking the Iranians at the Strait of Hormuz.
Followup Fact: The US downed an Iranian passenger jet over the Strait in 1988.
Followup Fact: We have nuclear submarines in the Strait right now. One of them collided with a Japanese oil tanker.
Followup Fact: The Strait of Hormuz is one of the most contested oil chokepoints in the world. Almost all Middle Eastern oil exports rely upon passage through it.
Fact: The northern half of the Strait of Hormuz is Iranian.
Fact: Its not entirely uncommon to attract attention when a warship enters foreign waters without having prior notification.
Observation: The article fails to specify what language the transmission was made in.
Fact: The United States has a track history of poorly translating and mistranslating Farsi.
Fact: Iran has a notably hostile military and had just finished the bloodiest war of the late 20th Century
Fact: The press conference said that such incidents happened before, the reason given is the result of the ships not identifying each other until they move into position.
Fact: Iran has sovereignty over its waters, it can do as it damn well pleases in them.
Fact: The article misstates that the Strait of Hormuz is international waters. It is not, there is an agreed upon maritime boundary drawn between Iran and Oman.

My conclusion: In my opinion, the USN ships strayed close to the borders of Iranian waters and were just being warned not to enter. The package dropped into the water was probably some red herring meant to trick ships into thinking its a mine or a bomb so it'll stay away, and the position was probably returned to and the package retreived. The comments issued by the US spokeperson carry the telltale signs of sabre-rattling. It would seem both sides are just looking for an excuse.

[silentsniper_42]

Governtment leader: "Hasn't this happened before?"
Secretary:"Yes Sir."
Leader:"Well why did it happen again?"
Secretary:"Cause we are retards, and we did not react to a boat coming straight for us."
Leader:"wtf"

[NicholasJohnson]

Observation: The article fails to specify what language the transmission was made in.
Fact: The United States has a track history of poorly translating and mistranslating Farsi.

FACT: The transmission was made in English. I don't have a link to a video but it was in English.



were just being warned not to enter

You don't warn someone by transmitting "we are about to blow you up" and coming within 200 yards in speedboats. That isn't a standard "international" procedure.

We all know that no matter what happened, it's always going to be the USN's fault. :uhoh2:

[|:XAS:| Bravo]

USS Cole.

[2ltben]

You don't warn someone by transmitting "we are about to blow you up" and coming within 200 yards in speedboats. That isn't a standard "international" procedure.

We all know that no matter what happened, it's always going to be the USN's fault. :uhoh2:
As I understand it, the North Koreans have troops stationed in the DMZ whose only job is to approach the South Korean guard posts to try and get them to fire first.

This also is the Islamic Republic of Iran. As I understand it, this was done by the Revolutionary Guard, who only answers to Khameini. There is no one in the standard Iranian chain of command with any authority over them.


USS Cole.
...has absolutely nothing to do with this. The USS Cole was attacked by al-Qaeda, which is Sunni. I don't think the other half of the Iran-Iraq War would be reaching across the aisle 12 years after the end of one of the worst wars since 1945. It'd be like Pakistan becoming the best of friends with India in 1960.

[NicholasJohnson]

...has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Yes it does. Incidents like the USS Cole attack are the reason the Navy is extremely wary of small craft potentially laden with explosives.

[Corporate Ignorance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FaLQ4QXfOI

[2ltben]

Yes it does. Incidents like the USS Cole attack are the reason the Navy is extremely wary of small craft potentially laden with explosives.
Fair enough. But you can't deny that, had this happened in the Chesapeke, we would have responded in much the same way. We wouldn't have used their exact wording, but we'd have been just as threatening.

[scottdog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FaLQ4QXfOI

Iran gets my vote this time

[Corporate Ignorance]

Fair enough. But you can't deny that, had this happened in the Chesapeke, we would have responded in much the same way. We wouldn't have used their exact wording, but we'd have been just as threatening.

Ben and Nicholas, I would recommend you to watch the video(link above)...

[|:XAS:| Bravo]

Radioed after the Coalition ships had passed. I didn't even catch what the Iranian was saying in the link. 73 said repeatedly that they were in international waters, so what were the Iranians trying to do?

The USN has better things to do than to fabricate a video. In the video I saw it included the audio part where the Iranian transmission made the threat. This part was unedited and included the guy on the radio (seen from his right side) then zooming the camera to one of the Iranian boats that came very close to one of the ships. A report says that the Whidbey Island fired warning shots, I can't recognize the Whidbey Island but it may have been the one I saw.

Besides, if they did communicate to each other that they had no intention of threat then the USN would have still fired warning shots had one of the boats come into range where the gunners have permission to fire. The rules of engagement have changed since the Cole, as Nick stated.

Before some of you say anything more, my father is right behind me. A lot of my opinion come from what he said. After being in the Navy for about 20 years and retiring last year as a Commander I'd say he knows what he's talking about compared to many of you.

[ultrakill91]

omg! they are asking us too leave:surprised: lets bomb theyr country!:evil3:

[ultrakill91]

and take their oil:evil3:

[NicholasJohnson]

"ultrakill91," please do not do that (or double post for that matter) please.

[Corporate Ignorance]

Radioed after the Coalition ships had passed. I didn't even catch what the Iranian was saying in the link. 73 said repeatedly that they were in international waters, so what were the Iranians trying to do?

The USN has better things to do than to fabricate a video. In the video I saw it included the audio part where the Iranian transmission made the threat. This part was unedited and included the guy on the radio (seen from his right side) then zooming the camera to one of the Iranian boats that came very close to one of the ships. A report says that the Whidbey Island fired warning shots, I can't recognize the Whidbey Island but it may have been the one I saw.



Before some of you say anything more, my father is right behind me. A lot of my opinion come from what he said. After being in the Navy for about 20 years and retiring last year as a Commander I'd say he knows what he's talking about compared to many of you.


Well, the Iranian sailor was simply saying "This is Iranian Navy Patrol Boat, switch to channel 1-1 etc"...
The Warship 73 answered "We are reading you loud and clear"...

Iranian government on 10 January broadcast a video, which the presenter said was "representing the Iranian version" of the Strait of Hormuz incident. The presenter quoted Gen Ali Fadawi, deputy commander of the navy forces in the Iranian Revolution Guard Corps, denying "the US story" on the incident.

The presenter said: "The pictures confirm that the videotape shown by US TV stations on the incident was fabricated and that what had happened was a routine and normal procedure which, in the first place, aims to identify the ships which cross this strait. Fadawi said it is impossible to hold a conversation between US warships and Iranian boats in normal circumstances. He said the US side was trying to use normal procedure to achieve an unusual situation."

The TV correspondent in Tehran then told the presenter that the "pictures were clear, the numbers on the warships were also clear, and that this is very clear evidence confirming the Iranian version". The TV showed an Iranian navy person in apparent conversation with the US warship crew. The Iranian navy man repeats: "Coalition warship 73, this is Iranian naval patrol boat." This was followed by replies by US warship crew.


Well, before making any assertions we should just compare both versions and official positions of the side. And how those things are represented in official media, i.e actual wording and insinuations...


Well, USN is blameless technically, because soldiers and sailors are fulfilling orders and simply doing their job- they are tools, not the reasons behind the policy. "The big guys" and higher ups are responsible for political matters, agendas, fabrication, geopolitical lies and all other "dirt" out there. Military personell usually are those who have to do the most dangerous and tragic part of the job so I can agree that USN, as it is, didn't fabricate anything. I can give my full respect to you father, because such professions as sailors,(especially military) always caused my admiration. But what we've got here is totally diffrent matter. I'm not blaming anyone yet, I just think that in the context of the tension between U.S.A. and Iran this is all highly suspecious.
Also, remmeber Gulf of Tonkin incident. So such things happened before. And U.S. is not a unique country in that aspect(Soviets did it, Germans did it, UK did it- everybody)
Again, I'm not blaming ordinary soldiers, airmen and sailors in any given war- the general vector of state policy gots my scorn and condemnation.

[2ltben]

The Iranian video shows the incident. The Pentagon video shows absolutely nothing but the speedboats cruising near them and has no radio traffic outside of the commo operator saying that they're operating in International Waters, meaning the Hormuz shipping lanes.

The Iranian video clearly does not show the whole of the situation, but it shows the beginning of it, which is them asking about the markings of the helicopter above the ships, which is in a position to violate Iranian airspace. The followthrough was handled with as much finesse as a bull in a china shop, but this is the Revolutionary Guard we're talking about. They do as they damn well please.

[|:XAS:| Bravo]

The Iranian video shows the ending, not the begging as you can see the ships had already left the area. It's alright for the Iranians to identify the ships, but to get that close at such a speed is very scary, thus justifying the sailors actions.

[2ltben]

Which were quite understandable when justified on their own, but the incident was manipulated for political sabre-rattling. And one has to take into consideration that the Revolutionary Guard does not belong in the standard chain of command in the Iranian military, these guys are the SS, they answer to Khameini and only Khameini, not even another Ayatollah, unless one is elected Supreme Leader

Ayatollah, as it stands, is a rank of Muslim cleric, not the title of the Supreme Leader position. Khameini was supposed to be an Ayatollah before rising to the position of Supreme Leader, but this didn't happen, and there was quite some controversy over this. The only thing more dangerous than a fanatic Shi'ite head of state that has what is essentially the equivalent of a Doctorate of Theology is one that doesn't.

The United States calls the Revolutionary Guard and the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution (the Iranian regulary military) terrorist organizations for funding Islamic groups internationally. However, the democratically elected leaders of the two nations we're trying to rebuild have praised the Iranian military for all the help it offers in improving security. And Bush says that Iran is working with the Taliban. The Taliban despises Iran and Iran despises the Taliban, why the hell would they be helping each other?